400 stroker questions

[Chryco Psycho]

I tend to disagree , more CI is Ok in a race engine , but for an efficent longer life engine I like to maintain the rod ratio & tq so less is more to me , I would defintaly stay at 451 CI for a street engine & keep the oil ring away from the wrist pin
 I feel the 440 Source kit may be cheaper in the long run , you will have a lot of machining to get the journals down to size & then have to pay for the balancing on top , , you can get a quote for pricing but it is probably as cheap just top order the new kit with rings, brg & pistons all included with the new crank & rods

[brads70]

Does anyone make a aftermarket light weight crank with the 2.2 rods and 400 main bearing size? I have a 440 now but don't want to cannibalize it I want to keep it for a spare. Sure I could find a stock 440 crank pretty easy but I'm thinking a light weight one would be more attractive! New is good!
If I was to look for a stock 440 crank which one?
I was reading about offset grinding to get more stroke and fit the 2.2 ( BBC size ) rods. What do you think about that?
Thanks for all your input guys ! I love this site!
Brad

[bb71challenger]

Thanks guys, you give me good valid points to ponder. I always thought that if I were to buy a stroker kit from 440 source I would get the most for the buck and go with a 470 or 500. I have been told by another guy whose opinion I hold in high esteem that I should go no more than 470 for a street engine for longevity. This engine will not be something I will pull every year for fresh bearings, etc. I want to be able to run the piss out of it for many many years. It will be tied down to a heavy car with air conditioning also.

[moparniac]

Brad I will be running the 2.20 myself and yes it will help cut down on bobweight...... The longevity/cubic inch /street car topic to me is always just opinions..... Chip Owens from moparts has a 572 70 hemi cuda pump gas cruiser at 3800lbs and runs 9.50's on the street All motor and never have issues and thats making BIG power..... actually the only one I know of is he exploded the tranny last year at the track and it was an 8 year old setup......

When you put a build together you have to think about the WHOLE picture...... and Im meaning this from a street car perspective.... Like why build any power if it over heats or wont idle right..... Heck I know guys that have 440's that have way too many issues and cant get a 750 holley to run right and overheats all the time!

On my challenger I had a dominator carb a 4000 stall / 500 cubes an electric waterpump /NEVER overheated or failed me or left me stranded anywhere...... see sig and you would never know that was a 1050+ dominator under that hood..... The better you get at tuning the more "impossible" parts you can run 

Brad stay away from the stage 6 stuff and when you find a set of those heads I would hate to have you get one of those "bad" sets 

As far as the 440source stuff have it checked over very well...... 

[brads70]

Thanks guys, you give me good valid points to ponder. I always thought that if I were to buy a stroker kit from 440 source I would get the most for the buck and go with a 470 or 500. I have been told by another guy whose opinion I hold in high esteem that I should go no more than 470 for a street engine for longevity. This engine will not be something I will pull every year for fresh bearings, etc. I want to be able to run the piss out of it for many many years. It will be tied down to a heavy car with air conditioning also.

Sounds like we are "wanting" the same and "thinking" the same way"

[brads70]

Brad I will be running the 2.20 myself and yes it will help cut down on bobweight...... The longevity/cubic inch /street car topic to me is always just opinions..... Chip Owens from moparts has a 572 70 hemi cuda pump gas cruiser at 3800lbs and runs 9.50's on the street All motor and never have issues and thats making BIG power..... actually the only one I know of is he exploded the tranny last year at the track and it was an 8 year old setup......

When you put a build together you have to think about the WHOLE picture...... and Im meaning this from a street car perspective.... Like why build any power if it over heats or wont idle right..... Heck I know guys that have 440's that have way too many issues and cant get a 750 holley to run right and overheats all the time!

On my challenger I had a dominator carb a 4000 stall / 500 cubes an electric waterpump /NEVER overheated or failed me or left me stranded anywhere...... see sig and you would never know that was a 1050+ dominator under that hood..... The better you get at tuning the more "impossible" parts you can run 

Brad stay away from the stage 6 stuff and when you find a set of those heads I would hate to have you get one of those "bad" sets 

As far as the 440source stuff have it checked over very well...... 

Thanks for your advice Jason!I don't trust 440 source stuff so I'll be looking else ware.
Who's rods are you going to use? Who makes good cranks?

[moparniac]

Brad Give Ray Barton Racing a call....... They have their own spec stuff made up....... My challenger had RBRE Manley rods in it and the dart will have RBRE carillo rods..... Excellent customer service. I talked to Ray and he is gonna spec up his own grind roller for my setup for a streetcar! They can make you your whole bottom end setup you want..... They sell everything actually.....

BTW - Ray was also lower than anyone by far for my new setup and I called everyone....   

Ray Barton Racing Engines
610.693.5700
Ask for Ollie or Rob

Pennsylvania phone number

 

[brads70]

Thanks Jason! I see he is only about 2 hours from my In-laws in Mifflinburg. That works out great!

[moparniac]

Thanks Jason! I see he is only about 2 hours from my In-laws in Mifflinburg. That works out great!

He will even give you a tour of the shop and maybe a t shirt.... 

[brads70]

Shirts are ALWAY good!   We might be heading down their for Christmas so .....?

[brads70]

When I build this I think I'll get this "rowing equipment" in aluminum!

http://www.passonperformance.com/
I'm liking it! Allot!

[moper]

I have 3 A833OD cores for sale...lol.

[73EStroker]

Brad - I have finally sorted out my issues with running my 451 with the 833OD from a 1/2 ton. I have a hell of a time keeping those rear 275-60-15 moccasins from breaking loose. I couldn't imagine how much more difficult that would be with the 512 CI. I break away in 2nd gear (1.65 ratio) at 70mph and just smoke the tires on dry pavement. This happened yesterday. I have a Passon Hemi OD sitting in the shed waiting to go in as well. The standard OD has a small center bearing that could be a weak link and yes I have a Dana SG 3.73.
So what I am hearing from you is that you have to focus on budget (like a lot of us do) and you want the best bang for the buck. I would say use the 400 block, use a good 440 forged 4 spd crank, if you can buy new rods (whatever,so long as they are new) and of course go for the stroker 451 forged piston. Steel flywheel and a 440 Source fluiddamper. Get it all balanced. Lunati solid cam (for the RPM) like CP says and stop there. Iron heads cleaned up now, then later you can add the best heads without having to redo the bottom end again. Good manifold, headers and 950 carb and you will be surprised what you have. I cannot think of a more cost effective way to do what you want.

[Moparal]

I have 3 A833OD cores for sale...lol.

The a8330d trans, do they have 308 first gear ratios?   I dont know what comes inside of them. I rode in Chryco's car and it felt like first went really quick. And he has 276 gears with a big block

[brads70]

Thanks for the advice Barry! I'm thinking of a 2-3 year timeline to gather parts and just drive what I have now. I haven't driven my car yet ( long story see this post if interested   http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=52167.60 ) so If the tranny is broke I will have to decide whether to rebuild it or just bite the bullet and go with a 4 speed set up. The car has a 440 from a motor home so I'm assuming its a slug.
 I am somewhat a weight conscious freak so the passon aluminum unit is attractive to me. I just gathered up and installed a 3:55 8 3/4 rear end set up to replace the 7 1/4 that was in it. I should have built a Dana 60 but the 8 3/4 was available and at a good price! I am learning so what are the stock gear ratio's in a 833OD? ( 1st 2nd etc..) Are the Passon units different?
I think I am "set" on a 451" after talking to CP I'm considering a 440 source kit? I am on the hunt for a good deal on a pair of stage 6 heads too. I like the design. I know there are better choices for a drag engine but this will be a street car. I already have a car that's too wild for the street ( 86 Buick w/455/4speed/9" rear) and don't want that for the Challenger. The Buick is fun for a 1/2 drive but that's it! I tell people it's like driving a pit-bull with Aids!