My car runs horribly

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    Author Topic: My car runs horribly  (Read 5740 times)

    Offline missioncritical

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    My car runs horribly
    « on: November 29, 2009 - 10:05:39 PM »
    My car runs like c.r.a.p.

    The car is a 70 Cuda with a stock 383.

    When I purchased it, it ran badly too (died easily and backfired a lot) and it barely made it home (4 miles).  So far, I've replaced the carb, rotor and distributor cap.  After doing that and running it, it ran a lot stronger, but idled way too high and still backfired through the carb and I think thru the exhaust too just like before.  The backfiring is actually worse, so I think the new parts made it run better-worse, if you know what I mean.  Before, it was really weak and barely ran, now its more scary.  :(

    I have plug wires on order and I just today put in new plugs.  Once I get the new wires, I'll see how it runs with the new wires and plugs.  While I was at it and changing the plugs, I did a compression test on all but cylinder #6, and every cylinder was somewhere between 130 and 150.  Most were 130-135.  I assume this is OK.  I have two questions at this point:

    1.  I don't know if the engine is running well enough to check the timing, which I have not messed with yet, but it was running when I got it home.  What should the timing be set at (after I plug the vacuum advance) ?  It is a 383 automatic.  I have an inductive timing light with a dial, but I don't really understand the marks on the damper.

    2.  The ignition on this car really confuses me.  The distributor does not have points or a condensor, so I assume it was upgraded to electronic ignition.  The wires going along the fender don't appear to be part of a factory harness either.  I have two modules:  One is on the firewall, a silver box labeled 'WELLS'.  The other box is on the passenger fender. Its a light blue color with an aluminum looking bracket thing on the outside.  This box is very 'sticky' and goo-ey.  I removed it and found the plastic/whatever on the back to be dissolving and running down the fender.  Can these devices are anything else in the chain cause backfiring and such ?

    Also, is there a wiring diagram anywhere that shows the electronic ignition portion ?  My diagram only shows a points-style distributor.

    Many thanks for anyone that can piece this back together.

    -Kevin
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    Offline dodj

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009 - 10:29:48 PM »
    Sounds like timing is going to be part of your issue. The ignition components you describe don't ring a bell for me, hopefully someone else will be familiar with them.

    Pictures might help.
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    Scott
    1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
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    Offline 72rtchallenger

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009 - 10:41:58 PM »
    Quote from: dodj on November 29, 2009 - 10:29:48 PM
    Sounds like timing is going to be part of your issue. The ignition components you describe don't ring a bell for me, hopefully someone else will be familiar with them.

    Pictures might help.
    :iagree:
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    72rtchallenger
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    Offline missioncritical

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009 - 11:03:26 PM »
    Here are the pictures of these things I don't know what they are or how to know if they are causing problems.  The sticky part I definitely want to replace as its making a mess of things.  I also have some extra wires that I'd like to know what they used to be for, etc.

    Re the timing: do you know what it should be for this car ?  I don't understand what its saying on the emissions sticker (it makes no sense to me).

    Thanks

    -Kevin
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    Offline 6packCuda

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009 - 11:08:35 PM »
    The top picture is your voltage regulator and the other is your electronic ignition control box.
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    Dave

    Offline missioncritical

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #5 on: November 30, 2009 - 12:37:03 AM »
    Thanks; now that I know what is what I ordered a new control module and wiring harness.  And now I know what the 'orange box' is everyone was talking about.   

    I'm learning....slowly.  I'll try to see if I can get the timing checked out too.

    Thanks

    -Kevin
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    Offline dodj

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #6 on: November 30, 2009 - 07:46:34 AM »
    Quote from: missioncritical on November 30, 2009 - 12:37:03 AM
    And now I know what the 'orange box' is everyone was talking about.   
    I've never seen one blue before. Chrome, black, orange, and gold but not blue. :blah:
    Even it it was proven good I'd replace it. It's just too ugly to keep on the car :smilielol:
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    Scott
    1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
    2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
    Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

    Offline Bullitt-

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #7 on: November 30, 2009 - 09:10:23 AM »
        1st off clean the mounting point for the ignition module for a good ground.
    You can set your base timing with the engine not running... Clean off the timing mark on the harmonic balancer and the plate mounted to the engine. I like to highlight these with silver or white paint.  Put your timing light on the #1 wire & have someone crank the engine while you turn the distributor until you can see the mark on the balancer, try to get it to around 10 BTDC. Your engine should start there.    Double check your firing order, crossed wires can wreak havoc....Don't ask me how I know.


    This mark is at Top Dead Center,TDC,  To the left each mark is 1-degree Before Top Dead Center, BTDC. 
    « Last Edit: November 30, 2009 - 09:22:42 AM by Bullitt- »
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    Offline quapman

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009 - 07:50:51 PM »
    Check the wire positions on the distributor cap and make sure they are not only in the right order, but going in the right direction also.

    I had a car wired counter-clockwise once that ran exactly as you describe. Switched the direction and viola!
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    My name is Steve and I'm addicted to Challengers...

    Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #9 on: November 30, 2009 - 07:57:24 PM »
    If it isn't an electrical problem, it might be fuel related. How long has this car sat? Stale gas in the fuel tank? Clogged fuel filter? Weak fuel pump?
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    Mike

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    Offline missioncritical

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009 - 09:24:09 PM »
    Thanks for all of the replies.

    Here is some additional info:

    I have a feeling (now) that the electronic ignition parts were added a long long time ago, as the wiring on them does not look factory.  The voltage relay is also upside down (or seems to be).  I too thought that the blue color of my ignition control box was out of place.  It also very sticky like fly paper.  New one is on the way.  It was also in a weird location just above the horn.  Where are they ‘supposed’ to be mounted ?

    I had already checked the firing order/direction and found everything OK except one plug wire was off when I got it home, so I was running on 7. 

    The gas is a bit old, but not too bad.  There are two filters on the car now, one before the fuel pump and one after.  I plan on pulling the gas out of the tank just to be sure this week.

    My current problem is the engine idles too fast.  My idle screw is all of the way out and my butterflies are barely open.  It idles up (2500 rpm or so), then down, then back up, down, etc.  Then backfires, etc.  Other than new distributor cap and rotor, the main thing I changed was the entire carb.  Its only a 600 CFM, so I’m thinking that I may have created a huge vacuum leak somehow when I changed things over to the new carb.

    When I took the original carb off, it had a thin gasket fused to the intake, then a thick gasket, followed by another thin one.  I put a Fel-Pro 60123 on as it was very close to the ‘original’ when I put my new carb on.  When I try running it again, I am going to just try to get it to idle (baby steps) and plug all of my vacuum fittings, to see if that helps.

    -Kevin
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    Offline dodj

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009 - 09:43:39 PM »
    The voltage regulator is mounted normally. At least it is the same as mine. As for the electronic ignition module, it mounts on the firewall passenger side, just to the left of the regulator. Mine is mounted on a stand off bracket that spaces it about 1/2" off of the firewall.
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    Scott
    1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
    2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
    Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

    Offline 4 speed fish

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009 - 11:09:20 PM »
    I had the same fast idle problem when  I switch manifolds from a rpm edelbrock to a stock edelbrock .I switch because of shaker clearance.I did not put the steel gasket on and had major idle issue.I put that on with thin gaskets on both sides and problem gone.
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    Offline missioncritical

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009 - 11:44:19 PM »
    4speedfish, what do you mean by "I did not put the steel gasket on and had major idle issue.I put that on with thin gaskets on both sides and problem gone." ?

    I found my fast idle screw may have contributed some of the idle speed, but nothing is blocking the throttle.  I can't see how I created a leak with one thick gasket but I will need to check the next time I start it up.  I just want to wait until my new ignition module comes in.

    Thanks

    -Kevin
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    Offline 4 speed fish

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    Re: My car runs horribly
    « Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009 - 11:55:45 PM »
    The rpm manifold had a different flange then the stock edelbrock.At first I did not put the metal gasket on the stock one.Without it, The idle was very high.
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