Author Topic: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble  (Read 2210 times)

Offline 70burntorangeT/A

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Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« on: December 17, 2009 - 07:28:33 PM »
I have a factory rear sway bar set up off of a 74 rallye and i was considering installing it on my 70 and i was wondering if its worth the trouble? does it help out the handling much at all? Also can you buy new bushings for them as mine are a little rotten? if so, where? Also did all of the challengers have the holes in the frame rails for the rear sway bar to mount to or am i going to have to drill holes?

Thanks
66 f-100 black  240 straight 6  3 on the tree.....currently blown up :(
70 challenger burnt orange 440 727 3:23-weekend cruizer




Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2009 - 08:12:03 PM »
  I made some bushings work from Energy Suspension p# 9.5108G.  Had to grind em down to fit but not too much. Also used their end links .
  Also when you go to install notice there is a top & bottom to the bracket that tapers to match the frame rail.  There is also a left & right as the bushing bracket tilts in a smidgen.
  I believe there are dimples to show you where to drill...self tapping bolts go straight in the frame.  Here's a drawing I made to help located them.


« Last Edit: January 25, 2012 - 08:08:41 AM by Bullitt- »
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009 - 08:14:07 PM »
Well that depends...How do you drive the car? Is your suspension stock? How 'bout the tires? Does it have a front sway bar?

From the factory E-bodies understeer like crazy. If you're running stock suspension, the rear sway bar will help to correct this understeer and reduce body roll. But only if your matching this to the rest of your suspension. Just slapping on a sway bar may or may not help your cause. Also, I don't believe that you could get just a rear sway bar from the factory, they would be paired with a front also. Unless you're adding the rear to correct a specific problem, I'd add the front sway bar as well if your car doesn't already have one. Together they will raise your effective wheel spring rates, reduce body roll, and improve the handling of the car pretty significantly. Adding just a rear bar may take you directly from understeer to oversteer, so keep that in mind.

As far as the bushings, most places like Summit don't list rear bushings for a specific application (at least for our Mopars). However, these are pretty generic, so you can look up sway bar bushings and pick out the right diameter. Or you could give Firm Feel a call, I'm sure they have some around.

Offline dodj

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009 - 09:53:59 PM »
Also did all of the challengers have the holes in the frame rails for the rear sway bar to mount to or am i going to have to drill holes?

Thanks
My car is a '73 non rallye and the rear frame has the holes for the sway bar bracket. Noticed the holes when removing the undercoating.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009 - 11:01:59 PM »
there are dimples in the factory frame for the holes & yes the upgrade is worthwhile

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Offline 70burntorangeT/A

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009 - 12:19:12 AM »
Well that depends...How do you drive the car? Is your suspension stock? How 'bout the tires? Does it have a front sway bar?

From the factory E-bodies understeer like crazy. If you're running stock suspension, the rear sway bar will help to correct this understeer and reduce body roll. But only if your matching this to the rest of your suspension. Just slapping on a sway bar may or may not help your cause. Also, I don't believe that you could get just a rear sway bar from the factory, they would be paired with a front also. Unless you're adding the rear to correct a specific problem, I'd add the front sway bar as well if your car doesn't already have one. Together they will raise your effective wheel spring rates, reduce body roll, and improve the handling of the car pretty significantly. Adding just a rear bar may take you directly from understeer to oversteer, so keep that in mind.

As far as the bushings, most places like Summit don't list rear bushings for a specific application (at least for our Mopars). However, these are pretty generic, so you can look up sway bar bushings and pick out the right diameter. Or you could give Firm Feel a call, I'm sure they have some around.

I have a factory RT front sway bar, all of the bushings in the front end are new, I believe my tires are a little bit oversize, 235/60/15 front and 255/60/15 on back. I dont drive my car like a road racer but i have noticed that even taking corners at normal speeds there is a lot of body roll. Will adjusting the tortion bars help with the handling any at all....they are adjusted about as far down as they can go without the tires rubbing during cornering. They arent adjusted like that for any reason other then i like the stance it gives the car
66 f-100 black  240 straight 6  3 on the tree.....currently blown up :(
70 challenger burnt orange 440 727 3:23-weekend cruizer

Offline dodj

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2009 - 07:25:56 AM »
Adjusting the torsion bars will just change the ride height, the spring rate stays the same. Sounds like you already have them adjusted for handling - the lower the centre of gravity the better. :2cents:
I put 1 1/8" front and 7/8" rear sway bars and it made a huge difference from just the stock 7/8" front bar - no rear bar.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline ericindc

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2009 - 09:27:50 AM »

I've seen alot of comments regarding the suspension issues. It seems from the comments that its best to design the whole suspension at once.  In general is it best to have bigger swaybars (1 1/4 vs 1 1/8) and slightly softer torsion bars, or smaller swaybars and stiffer torsion bars?  Also, the front suspension I can do myself but it seels like most rear swaybar applications call for welding reinforcement plates to the frame and since I dont weld, thats a problem. Will this have bad consequences for handling? 

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Offline autoxcuda

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009 - 12:39:49 PM »
I've seen alot of comments regarding the suspension issues. It seems from the comments that its best to design the whole suspension at once.  In general is it best to have bigger swaybars (1 1/4 vs 1 1/8) and slightly softer torsion bars, or smaller swaybars and stiffer torsion bars? 

No, there are many ways to approach it and still get improvement. There's a lot of room for improvement, so if you appoach it in logical steps you will still be improving every step.


Quote
Also, the front suspension I can do myself but it seels like most rear swaybar applications call for welding reinforcement plates to the frame and since I dont weld, thats a problem. Will this have bad consequences for handling?

The aftermarket rear sway bar that I know of don't require any welding. The factory and Firmfeel rear bars require you unbolt the axle from the leaf spring to put a new shock plate on that has a sway bar provision. The Hotchkis, Hellwig, and Addco rear bars only require drilling of the frame and they bolt on to the axle.
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2009 - 08:38:08 PM »
I have a factory RT front sway bar, all of the bushings in the front end are new, I believe my tires are a little bit oversize, 235/60/15 front and 255/60/15 on back. I dont drive my car like a road racer but i have noticed that even taking corners at normal speeds there is a lot of body roll. Will adjusting the tortion bars help with the handling any at all....they are adjusted about as far down as they can go without the tires rubbing during cornering. They arent adjusted like that for any reason other then i like the stance it gives the car

The rear sway bar would then be the logical next step. As mentioned the torsion bar setting will give you a slightly lower CG, but no spring rate change. I'd go with the rear sway bar and see how that goes. If its still too soft in the corners (and with stock springs it likely will be) the next step after that would be stiffer springs. Aftermarket (larger) sway bars will also help, but E-bodies are just way undersprung from the factory.

Still got the smallblock in it? I'd look for the .96" front torsion bars and at least xhd rear springs. With the sway bars that should give you a pretty decent ride for a driver. 1" bars in the front would be good too, but again it depends on what you're looking for. I have 1.12" torsion bars in my smallblock car, but I'm setting it up for aggressive street/road track use, and had to use dropped spindles to get the ride height back down after running out of torsion bar adjustment. 1" bars shouldn't cause that issue, but much bigger will.

In general is it best to have bigger swaybars (1 1/4 vs 1 1/8) and slightly softer torsion bars, or smaller swaybars and stiffer torsion bars?  Also, the front suspension I can do myself but it seels like most rear swaybar applications call for welding reinforcement plates to the frame and since I dont weld, thats a problem. Will this have bad consequences for handling? 

Depends on the use of the car. If you're building a street car and drive it a ton, its probably better to go with bigger sway bars. I personally think you should still go with stiffer than stock t-bars, but as above I'd say .96-1" in the front and xhd type srping rates in the back (~140 lbs) with the 1 1/8" front and 7/8" rear bars should give good handling without a punishing ride. The larger sway bars give you a higher effective spring rate in the corners without killing you on rougher roads all day long.

With the 1.12" t-bars in my car and xhd rear springs I'd have to say I have very little body roll, and that's WITHOUT sway bars at the moment. But the ride is fairly stiff, and I still have 15" rims and no frame connectors. With 17" rims, frame connectors, super stock springs (better balance with the 1.12's) and sway bars the ride will get stiffer! But I plan on using adjustable sway bars, so I can dial in the handling. For an aggressive street/race handling car the bigger t-bars with adjustable sway bars may be a better way to go, since it allows you to add or subtract the sway bar input while giving you a good base, since changing springs and t-bars isn't something most people want to do all the time. But on rougher roads the ride will suffer, and if the roads are rough enough so will the handling.

Tires also play a big role, if you're using stock width and compound tires you won't need the really large t-bars, you just won't have the traction to translate all the force to the car and you'll lose traction. But with wider tires and softer, more modern compounds (or race compounds) you can put a TON more force into the car and make use of the larger bars.


Offline torredcuda

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Re: Rear sway bar...is it worth the trouble
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2009 - 06:54:46 AM »
My smallblock cuda was biult with torsion bars and rear springs from a big block car,factory front sway bar and KYB gas shocks and BFG tires.It is also lowered a bit with the torsion bars and it had a lot of understeer till I put in a factory rear bar.The rear bar made a definite improvement and now feels more balanced,my main limiting factor now is the tires-I really need some stickier ones than the BFG`s.
Jeff
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