A damn tough decision...

Author Topic: A damn tough decision...  (Read 15562 times)

Offline _Russ_

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2010 - 01:56:07 AM »
My only problem with the newer Chally's is the interior - it takes up too much space.

The "cockpit" styling in modern cars is crap and is really what lets down these modern remakes. Unfortunately they're necessary for people that want a modern car, as they want to fit as many useless gadgets & gismoz in them as they can. If they scaled it back a bit, but still managed to fit most of the stuff in, without the excess bulk, it would be great


The exterior styling I like. The stripes just don't seem right, but they can be removed, so that's no biggie - and the wheels are boring, but can also be changed to suit, so that's also an easy fix.


I won't buy a new car, as my money is limited, and the electronics throughout the entire system is far too much for my liking - but if I did have the means to buy a modern car, a modern Chally would without a doubt be the one I'd get.




Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2010 - 03:14:16 AM »
For the record, at least according to the specs I could find, the new Challenger is over 6" longer, 1/2" narrower, and 6" taller than the old Challengers.

First generation
Production    1970–1974
Assembly    Hamtramck, Michigan, United States
Los Angeles, California, United States
Body style(s)    2-door convertible
2-door hardtop coupe
Platform    E-body
Engine(s)    198 cu in (3.2 L) Slant 6 I6
225 cu in (3.7 L) Slant 6 I6
318 cu in (5.2 L) LA V8
340 cu in (5.6 L) LA V8
360 cu in (5.9 L) LA V8
383 cu in (6.3 L) B V8
426 cu in (7 L) Hemi V8
440 cu in (7.2 L) RB V8
Transmission(s)    3 speed manual ( floor shift ) 4-speed manual
3-speed TorqueFlite automatic
Wheelbase    110.0 in (2794 mm)
Length    191.3 in (4859 mm)
Width    76.1 in (1933 mm)
Height    50.9 in (1293 mm)


Third generation
Production    2008–present
Assembly    Brampton Assembly plant in Canada[8]
Class    Pony car
Body style(s)    2-door coupe
Platform    Chrysler LC platform
Engine(s)    6.1 L (370 cu in) HEMI V8
5.7 L (345 cu in) HEMI V8 (2009-present)
3.5 L (214 cu in) SOHC V6 (2009-present)
Transmission(s)    4-speed Automatic (2009-present)
5-speed Automatic
6-speed Manual (2009-present)
Wheelbase    116.0 in (2946 mm)
Length    197.7 in (5022 mm)
Width    75.7 in (1923 mm)
Height    57.0 in (1448 mm)


I was interested in both the new Charger and Challenger concepts when they came out. Sadly, Dodge blew the production of both of them. The Charger really got the short end of the stick in the visual department, and while the Challenger looks more like the concept putting it on a 300C chassis just killed it. The proportions are wrong, and really, the looks just don't do it for me. None of the body lines have enough definition. They're too conservative, too bland, to make it pop as a modern musclecar.

The Camaro, on the other hand, has some pretty aggressive styling. I'm not sold on it either, it definitely looks kinda strange from some angles. But it grabs attention. I probably see about the same number of new Challenger's and Camaro's out on the road now (surprising enough considering how much longer the Challenger has been available), but out on the street the Camaro's just seem more noticeable, the Challenger's just blend in with the crowd more. Maybe it's because they've been out longer. Or maybe I'm subconsciously ignoring them, since I have NEVER had a wave returned from a new Challenger owner (yes, while driving my Challenger, its the only thing I drive).

And I'm not impressed by the performance numbers. Any classic Challenger with a pumped up small block can be in the same ballpark hp wise as the new Chally's, but would weigh a good 300 lbs less (or more!). The new Challenger only managed .88 g's on the skid pad, I've seen reworked classic Challenger's manage better than that, close to 1g. That's obviously not a stock-to-stock comparison though, so not entirely fair.

Performance wise, the new Camaro's are kicking the new Challenger's butt. I personally think they win out in the looks department too, the new Chally's just look too boring. As far as the back seat, who cares? You're not buying a performance car to plant 3 large adults comfortably in the back seat (you sure can't do that with a classic Challenger). And for the price you could buy a very nice Camaro, and then improve its performance substantially for less than the price of the new Challenger. And I really don't like Chevy's. And for the record, I won't be buying either myself, I'll stick with my '72 Challenger, it does everything I need it to do and is by far more fun.


Offline Rare_T_A

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2010 - 08:42:05 AM »
Well for starters I should clarify I bought a used Z06  and paid less than a new Challenger (paid under $30k for it) price for it. For the price of a new Challenger SRT8 I can build a classic challenger with XV motorsports suspension brakes, drop in a fuel injected engine, overdrive, etc, etc, and made it destroy a new challenger. but that is not the discussion.

I'm not saying the new Challenger is a bad car in the way it performs or that it is uncomfortable, I am saying that the body porportions are wrong and it looks like a bloated cow compared to the original. Also when I sit in a new challenger i get a feeling that I am in a new charger, not an old challenger. The new challenger is more like a modern sedan than a modern muscle car. The interior on the mustang and camaro are a lot better in terms of resemblance to the original than the challenger is. yes they have less interior room than the challenger, but they are muscle cars, not performance sedans. Most road tests of the 3 new cars places the challenger last, why because it is bigger, heavier, underpowered (for its size) and really other than appearance (by itself) is really a sedan and not a muscle car.


Park your new Tupperware car next to a 53 vet and tell us how it's not a bloated pig. I'd be will to bet the new one will dwarf the origional. But I guess thats OK.
'09 Challenger R/T  5.7 HEMI Auto
'70Challenger T/A 340 727

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Offline Rare_T_A

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2010 - 08:59:24 AM »
I just did a little research and guess what.....You have a bloated pig in your driveway also. Oh and buy the way your bloated pig doesn't even come close to looking like the original. Actually it looks more like a Viper the a 53. So I guess you didn't do any better with your new purchase.


1953 Corvette

Wheelbase: 102" Track: 57" Front / 58.8" Rear Height: 51.5" Over Windshield
Length: 167.3" Width: 69.8" Curb Weight: 2,886 lbs.
Tire Size: 6.70x15" Plant: Flint, MI



C6 Z06

Dimensions
Wheelbase (in / mm): 106 / 2629 106 / 2629
Overall length (in / mm): 175 / 4445 175 / 4445
Overall width (in / mm): 73 / 1854 76 / 1930
Overall height (in / mm): 49 / 1244 49 / 1244
Curb weight (lb / kg): 3179 / 1442 3130 / 1419.7

'09 Challenger R/T  5.7 HEMI Auto
'70Challenger T/A 340 727

Fargo, N. Dak.
My web Site:  http://freiss.co.nr

My Flikr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/102813164@N04/

I was born with nothing and I still have most of it left!

Offline 72hemi

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2010 - 09:09:52 AM »
First my Corvette is not a retro redo of the 53, but putting that aside lets compare the specs of the 53 corvette to my C5 corvette.

                  53           2002
wheel base: 102"         104.5"     
length:       167.3"       179.7"
width:         69.8"        73.6"
height:        51.5"        47.7"
weight:       2886 lbs    3118 lbs
front track:  57"            62.4"
rear track:    58.8"         62.6"

So to sum it up my car has a 2 inch longer wheel base, is 12 inches longer, 4 inches wider, and 4 inches lower. Besides I didn't want a car that looked like a 53, if I did there are body kits available to make mine look like a 53. As for looking like a fat pig compared to the original yes mine is longer and wider, but its lower so if anything it looks way more aggressive (which it does) than the original.

So thank you for the personal attack, that is really mature. This thread is about how Chrysler messed up redesigning the Challenger to look like the old one, not how Chevrolet has evolved the Corvette over the past 50 years.
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline 72hemi

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2010 - 09:16:38 AM »
Oh and here found a picture of a 53 and a c5 next to each other and if anything the 53 looks like a bloated pig.  :poopoke:

and for the record here are a couple of shots of the 53 Commemorative Corvette body kit, for those who want their C5 to look like the original.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2010 - 09:23:44 AM by 72hemi »
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline Rare_T_A

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2010 - 12:34:51 PM »
First my Corvette is not a retro redo of the 53, but putting that aside lets compare the specs of the 53 corvette to my C5 corvette.

                  53           2002
wheel base: 102"         104.5"     
length:       167.3"       179.7"
width:         69.8"        73.6"
height:        51.5"        47.7"
weight:       2886 lbs    3118 lbs
front track:  57"            62.4"
rear track:    58.8"         62.6"

So to sum it up my car has a 2 inch longer wheel base, is 12 inches longer, 4 inches wider, and 4 inches lower. Besides I didn't want a car that looked like a 53, if I did there are body kits available to make mine look like a 53. As for looking like a fat pig compared to the original yes mine is longer and wider, but its lower so if anything it looks way more aggressive (which it does) than the original.

So thank you for the personal attack, that is really mature. This thread is about how Chrysler messed up redesigning the Challenger to look like the old one, not how Chevrolet has evolved the Corvette over the past 50 years.

Oh I see it's just fine for you to insult or cars but it's a personal attack if i think less of you car!  Maybe you need to look in the mirror to see who's not mature .
'09 Challenger R/T  5.7 HEMI Auto
'70Challenger T/A 340 727

Fargo, N. Dak.
My web Site:  http://freiss.co.nr

My Flikr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/102813164@N04/

I was born with nothing and I still have most of it left!

Offline 72hemi

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2010 - 12:39:47 PM »
I could care less what you think of my car, this discussion was about the challenger being out of proportion, you made it into a personal attack when you started rambling about the corvette. (which btw doesn't actually look bloated next to the original, which of course again doesn't matter because it isnt suppose to look like the old one like the challenger is)
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline Rare_T_A

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2010 - 12:53:39 PM »
Maybe you shouldn't throw out insults of others cars if you cannot take them coming back. You just enjoy your vette cause I know I'm enjoying my Challenger.
'09 Challenger R/T  5.7 HEMI Auto
'70Challenger T/A 340 727

Fargo, N. Dak.
My web Site:  http://freiss.co.nr

My Flikr Page: http://www.flickr.com/photos/102813164@N04/

I was born with nothing and I still have most of it left!

Offline 72hemi

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2010 - 01:00:36 PM »
I take them just fine. There isn't anything bad you can say about my corvette that i havent heard more of from the viper club. So believe me, I can take it. I took it all through high school for even owning a Mopar. You however seem to be having a problem accepting facts that chrysler missed the boat on the challenger (while they did come close, they still missed in key areas) by making the body proportions wrong (way too tall for its width), making it weigh more than 2 tons, and having the interior not close enough to the original. Now if Chevrolet had come out and said that they were making the C5 corvette a retro car to the original, then yes they missed the boat by a mile, but they never made that claim, the C5 is just another evolution in a now 57 year tradition of the American Sports car.

So next time you want to sling mud, try backing it up with some supporting facts first, sorry for calling the challenger a bloated pig, but that is a reasonable deduction to make from the facts at hand.

And as to enjoying my car, I do every day.
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline hpe600rt

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2010 - 01:24:07 PM »
i dont like vetts i have owend 2 of them an 84 and 86 modelevery one has the right to like what they like.and to not like something also me i would not buy a vette big death trap if you get in a crash,no room in them and how can you compare the price of a new car to the price of a used one,that doesnt seem right

Offline 72hemi

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2010 - 01:45:25 PM »
You're right every one is entitled to their opinion, and its not fair to compare the price of a used car to a new one, but the challenger is over priced compared to the new mustang and camaro. As for a death trap, people say that of all small cars, but they also say that of old cars. Really any car is a death trap and I don't buy that argument for any car. As for room, I have plenty of room for me and my wife and all of our luggage for trips with some left over, so there is plenty of room for me.
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2010 - 03:32:45 PM »
For the record, at least according to the specs I could find, the new Challenger is over 6" longer, 1/2" narrower, and 6" taller than the old Challengers.

Length    197.7 in (5022 mm)

Not quite, I just measured my '70 and my '09 and their length of the '70 concurs, but the '09 is around 193" long which is pretty close to the '70's length.
'70's are wide, I know all too well!  One of the Mopar clubs used to hold an annual show at the Belvidere final assembly plant.  Every year they would let a different Mopar model drive through the assembly line, so you could get a picture of your car "rolling off the Chrysler assembly line".  Us Challenger or cuda owners never got to do that though, as our cars were too wide for that assembly line!

Offline Rare_T_A

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2010 - 04:42:29 PM »
If you think your vette is just an evolution of the original then why is it so hard to think the same of the Challenger? It's not the same car as the 70's but simply and evolution of it with a retro look. Not even the same car. Neither is the vette. You can tout all your facts you want but it still remains that  your vette is still bigger than the original. I agree it has evolved only without the retro look. As far as I'm concerned there will never be another 53 vette nor will there ever be another 70 Challenger. Just for the record I have owned vettes in the past. Nice cars just not my cup of tea. But I still don't go around knocking them because someone else likes them. I just get tired of people having to bad mouth the Challenger. I don't feel your first comments were called for. Thus you got my reaction. If you don't like it ..fine with me. I just don't see why you feel the need to call it a fat pig. No one here has been going around dragging you vette through the mud( that I'm aware of ) so why do you feel it necessary to it to us? Please post another comment if you wish. I've said my peace so it's time to move on. I apologize if I offended you.
'09 Challenger R/T  5.7 HEMI Auto
'70Challenger T/A 340 727

Fargo, N. Dak.
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I was born with nothing and I still have most of it left!

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: A damn tough decision...
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2010 - 06:24:49 PM »
Debating with someone as narcissistic as John is like trying to teach your dog to speak French!  :rofl: When someone spends their life admiring his reflection in the pond, the reality that everyone has a different perspective is totally foreign to them, and that is sad. :2cents:
Looking back, it is surprising to see this thread resurrected itself from back in early January.  I wonder what happened with the OP? Did he buy a Camaro or Challenger, or give up on the idea altogether.
The bottom line is that asking a question like the OP's is not really reasonable.  When deciding about buying a special car, the decision is entirely personal.  So where does anyone else's opinion fit into the equation? :clueless:
In my case, I bought my first Challenger in high school 30 years ago.  In my HS and college days I spent a lot of time checking out ads looking for Challengers and cudas for sale, but most of what I found in my area was rotted out or beat and modified to hell.
I dreamed of what it would of been like if I had been older, and been able to head into a showroom and seek out one of my beloved E bodies brand new, unmolested, unrusted, with the color and options I wanted.
When the new Challengers came out, I was able to, in a sense, do what I had dreamed about decades earlier. Worked for me! And since I am 6'4", having the extra leg and headroom was a great thing for me and a great improvement over the first ones.  I'm a stick guy, but quite frankly, I am very uncomfortable driving '70-'74 E bodies with manuals, I bang my knee on the steering wheel when working the clutch. :swear:  Also the headroom is OK but could be better for me. The new Challenger is really comfy and the clutch is a dream for me!
Nothing in a Consumer Reports or Road and Track comparison test had any importance as to why I wanted one, if a competitors product is .2 seconds faster 0-60 and gets 1 mpg better mileage, for $1000 less, in my case, it wasn't important.
But what does that mean to a guy who is 20 years old, 5'3" and whose buddies all drive tuners?  Nothing, of course.  My reasons for finding the new Challenger to be a car to be passionate about have nothing in common with what he finds important in a car.
And what does my perspective have that is relevant to the OP, who apparently is in Europe? Probably not much either.  I don't know his background, his degree of passion for the original E bodies, what he wants to do with the car.  A new Camaro is not a very comfortable car for a guy my height, but to someone 6" shorter, that probably isn't an issue for example.
I freelance as a pilot and sometimes carry a big flight bag, and sometimes I stop at a Home Depot to grab some stuff for a home project, so the Challenger's big accessible trunk is a good thing for me, the Camaros tiny inaccessible trunk because of its narrow lid would be a big PITA for me.  But for someone who lives in a condo and never carries anything bigger than a gym bag, the trunk might not make a difference to them.
I've not in the SCCA and have never run a car on a road track, so performance handling is not a major factor for me, but to others certainly it would be.
So again, everyone's perspective is different, and what is right for one guy might make no difference to someone else.
And to repeat a thought I expressed earlier, I find that the only people who seem critical of the Challenger's looks are some Mopar enthusiasts and I do find that somewhat confusing ("they eat their own").  I am sure there are a number of reasons, in some cases my earlier thought that some who can't afford one like to find fault in the car to make themselves feel better is probably true, in other cases, some might want the car to be identical to the original and nothing else is acceptable.
But outside of a few in the Mopar community, it's rare to find anyone who doesn't think the car looks great.  Just about every new Challenger owner has stories of people coming up to them at gas stations or stores to compliment the car.  And I've heard a lot of stories about people who have had people tell them they thought the car was a restored original Challenger!  They don't think it's a big bloated boat apparently.
Get what suits your needs, your passion, your dreams, screw anyone else's opinion as it is irrelevant to you (unless it is your wife or girlfriend's opinion, than maybe it is relevent!  ;D)
And try to bite your tongue when you think of criticizing other's choices in cars, it's their dime, their dream, your opinion doesn't matter! (that is unless we are talking about Priuses, there is no excuse for those ugly things. :naughty:)
My choice works for me, I'm continue to be happy with it, and I hope everyone is happy with their cars, whatever that might be (unless it's a prius of course)!  :burnout:

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010 - 06:27:04 PM by JH27N0B »