WOW Toyota

Author Topic: WOW Toyota  (Read 10188 times)

Offline 71chally416

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2010 - 09:46:27 PM »
I thought this Popular Mechanics article was interesting:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/4347704.html


So we are to believe 52 people (so far) have died because they wanted an excuse to get rid of a car they no longer wanted?  :clueless:
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Offline Topcat

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2010 - 10:10:54 PM »
Here is another twist to the story,

My boss was telling me about a story he heard on the radio driving home.  A man was convicted of manslaughter from an accident involving (guess?????) thats right his Toyota of which his testimony at the time was that his accelerator stuck and caused the accident.  Because no one could find anything wrong with the accerlator he was convicted and is STILL serving his time in prison.  His lawyers are preparing their case to get him released based on Toyota admitting they have a problem.  Imagine that one....serving prison for something you had no control over!!!

The actual facts are on this story is that it's an earlier Toyota. I think an 96 Camry. Toyota is saying that's not one of the cars on the list being scrutinized. Either way, we'll see how that plays out. 
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2010 - 11:02:45 PM »
I dont know about any of the accidents except the one I read about and listened to the youtube clip on so I am not judging but for sure we are going to see all kinds of tools who are going to get in an "accident" just to facilitate a lawsuit.
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Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #78 on: March 05, 2010 - 02:33:59 AM »
So we are to believe 52 people (so far) have died because they wanted an excuse to get rid of a car they no longer wanted?  :clueless:

My sense is that the author was saying that some of the claims of unintended acceleration would be from people who actually just want to get rid of their cars - in other words, fraud.  Since I knew the CHP officer who died and how safety-concietious he was, I think there is a real problem, most likely related to the ECM.  The ABC report showed how the ECM can be fooled into WOT without triggering an error code.  Armed with that knowledge, there are plenty of unscrupulous people who would see that as an opportunity to get rid of a car they no longer can afford or just as a way to try to get a new car.
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Offline Supercuda

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #79 on: March 05, 2010 - 09:09:55 AM »
Because people are involved, there is guaranteed to be fraud associated with this problem. If the involved parties would accept this, and try to concentrate on a solution for the real cases, instead of arguing over whether ANY of them are valid, there would be progress. Now there is a question of Toyota's honesty in general, because the EDRs are now supposedly recording questionable, insufficient, or unnecessary information for the crash data. Toyota has changed their story so many times, they can't remember what they said last. Look for an end to Toyota sales in the USA, in about a year or so, due to the total loss of consumer trust. They have been hiding this problem for 10 years, and it is going to get UGLY.

Offline 73Chally

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #80 on: March 05, 2010 - 09:38:14 AM »
I just read that, too.  Apparently up until now they only had 1 (yes, 1 as in uno) computer in the COUNTRY that could read the EDR data.  Now all of a sudden they have 30 for the NHTA to examine the data, and 150 more by the end of April.  I wonder is this problem is worldwide, or if it only has to do with their vehicles built in the US?

Offline Supercuda

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #81 on: March 05, 2010 - 09:44:12 AM »
The problem is worldwide, but we were the first to ***** about it. In Britain, one driver said it was "inconvenient," but that he hadn't had an accident because of the issue. The European market is uninformed, and the Japanese are too ashamed of the problem to report it. I guess this is one instance where it pays to be a loud-mouthed, rude American. The lack of computers to access EDR data was intentional, I have no doubt. The Japanese corporate model is based upon the Samurai warrior code, and would of course encourage this kind of behavior.

Offline burnt orange

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #82 on: March 05, 2010 - 10:56:43 AM »
Look for an end to Toyota sales in the USA, in about a year or so, due to the total loss of consumer trust. They have been hiding this problem for 10 years, and it is going to get UGLY.

Lets hope not....how many American jobs would be lost?  Toyota HAS to solve this and carry on, properly humbled, but still a major player!

Remember when Toyota, Honda etc. were very basic, inexpensive, economical, reliable cars?  That is how they built their reputation and market.  (More recently Kia and Hyundai have done the same thing.)  Then, they all start to make more models and add unnecessary options to cars, and soon we get complex, expensive unreliable cars!

Nearly all the problems I have had with my cars in the past 20 years have been with the accessories and options - not with the basic mechanics of the car.  I had a new Mercedes that gave me nothing but trouble!  It was a great car to drive, but so many of the "luxury" features gave me a huge amount of trouble.  It would have been a perfect car if it had wind-up windows, non-power seats, no cruise control or automatic climate control and on and on and on.  Problems with stuff that I didn't need or want made the ownership of that car an expensive pain after a few years. 

I wonder about the big three and their long-term recovery.  They are rushing cars into production now with all sorts of new bells and whistles in a desperate effort to gain sales!  I fear that the same thing will happen to GM, Ford and Chrysler!
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Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2010 - 11:17:42 AM »
Makes ye olde throttle cable look pretty good, doesn't it?

supercuda is onto something. Cars are way too sophisticated/complicated. Manufacturers tout their 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty, but anymore its not the drivetrain you need to worry about- it's all the electronic sub-systems that cost a fortune to replace. My neighbor (a master Toyota mechanic) says for example a cruise control sensor for an Avalon cost $1200. (He drives a Ram diesel by the way, and says he would not own a new car). An acquantaince had her BMW M5 fail to start- actually it acted like the battery had been removed. They towed it to the dealer and waited 6 weeks for an entire new dash electronic "system" to be shipped from Germany. Cost- $5000. This is progress? This is innovation? Makes you wonder if man controls technology or vice versa.
I've ran into some of the BEEEMER stuff, the computers are a "family" if one goes down you replace them all!

As for these electronic throttles, were seeing them on lots of the newer cars. IMO its just an accident waiting to happen. This stuff is way OVER engineered! I lift my foot off NIKKI she slows down... its not rocket sience, but its turned into rocket sience!
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Offline shadango

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2010 - 11:29:42 AM »
I've ran into some of the BEEEMER stuff, the computers are a "family" if one goes down you replace them all!

As for these electronic throttles, were seeing them on lots of the newer cars. IMO its just an accident waiting to happen. This stuff is way OVER engineered! I lift my foot off NIKKI she slows down... its not rocket sience, but its turned into rocket sience!
:iagree:  EXACTLY!  WHen a computer screws up and crashes and causes my AC to not work, I just sweat a little.  but if a "drive by wire" car computer malfunctions this way it becomes a tad more of an issue.


Offline priderocks

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #85 on: March 05, 2010 - 10:03:04 PM »
burnt orange is right. I bought an extended warranty on my Suburban, not for the power train, but all the other crapola. How was the extended warranty used? Replacing the dash pad twice, a/c compressor, power window motors. How long have they been making these components? 50 years? None of these items are cutting edge technology-it is as if they haven't learned anything from half-century of manufacturing autos. A new car from ANY manufacturer is a tremendous risk. Imagine screwing your laptop computer to your trunk floor or dashboard and expecting it to work for 100,000 miles.

Offline whitesatinmopar

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2010 - 07:57:50 AM »
Any exceptionally intellengent engineers out there?  Edmunds has offered a cool $1,000,000.00 to anyone (first) who can determine and FIX this problem. This went public a couple days ago just after the DC hearings. Bet that makes Toyota feel real good, looking for a cure they can't come up with.  :dunno: Sad situation. Also how many times have your read or heard of people slamming into banks, resturants, etc. in parking lots? It's always, "Hit the wrong pedel" story, wonder how many of these instances were Toyota vehicles??
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Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2010 - 07:28:27 PM »
. Also how many times have your read or heard of people slamming into banks, resturants, etc. in parking lots? It's always, "Hit the wrong pedel" story, wonder how many of these instances were Toyota vehicles??
Good point Jim  :grinyes:
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2010 - 09:52:35 PM »
I dont know if its just a coincidence or what but lately I have noticed a few Toyota drivers acting erratic. I changed lanes behind a truck today and the lady suddenly slammed on her brakes like she wanted me to ass end her! I have seen other odd driving behavior but that one definitely seemed the most dangerous. Wonder if they are trying to get in wrecks so they can get out of their vehicle?
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Offline Supercuda

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Re: WOW Toyota
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2010 - 09:13:30 AM »
Everybody makes a good point. There will be a huge increase in the number of fraudulent claims concerning these vehicles, and there will be a terrible mess because of it. People will be people, and that includes the losers. The increasing complexity of our cars is due in part to Federal mandates, in part to engineers trying to keep their jobs, and in part to consumers wanting (demanding) cooler gadgets in their vehicles. Just wait for PCMs to start using wndows-based software, instead of the linux systems currently in vogue. Anybody for random system crashes that induce random vehicle crashes? It's coming. Remember that many of the "advances" in auto technology have come about because of people like us, who like to tinker. This has resulted in a lot of "advances" just to keep us out of the engine compartment. There will be no real fix for the Toyota problems, because there will be no elimination of this technology. Eliminating this technology would be an admission of a mistake, on an industry-wide level- it will not happen. My recommendation is to buy vehicles that don't utilize this technology, and force the industry around to a commonsense viewpoint through a loss of market. Nothing else will drive this in the right directon. As things now stand, we will be subjected to more complexity, in an effort to "fix" the new technology, and keep it on our cars. Sucks to be a consumer, sometimes.