440ci Magnum Build

[Roppa440]

Thanks mate, this sounds pretty nice, sounds like a real "tame" yet grunty street engine, nice compression too.

Yeah but mine is only a 440.
I am making between 500 and 550 lbs/ft of torque between 2000-5000rpm.

But make sure you don't go too big on the power.
A mate of mine fitted a 600+hp big stroked Barton Hemi into his HemiCuda that looks completely stock. He hates it and no longer drives it. With BFGs on 15-inch rallye wheels it is a death trap. It gets out of shape really easily with little throttle. In the wet it is almost completely undriveable.

[Carlwalski]

Good cam (Lunati), INDY EZ heads, adjsutable iron rockers, TTI headers, Big Carb (950CFM) Street Dominator manifold, distributor work and you are mostly there. The heads will give you about 11.5 to 1 on the compression alone with flat top pistons at zero deck.  That Super petrol will work better than the stuff here. The Indy heads are a true quench chamber. I run 10.75:1 and no pinging with 91 octane and trust me (from one kiwi to another) I have a dent in the carpet where the throttle pedal goes. The heads are out of the box and bolt on - zero issues. I also used buttons on the top of the valves. Makes the rocker sit at a better angle.
Good luck

Thanks fellow Kiwi, all good info.


Thanks Chryco, those are great #s, you always get the best #s out of our MoPar engines.
If I had the cash I'd fly you out here lol Experience like you have can not be purchased, nice work.

Yeah but mine is only a 440.
I am making between 500 and 550 lbs/ft of torque between 2000-5000rpm.

But make sure you don't go too big on the power.
A mate of mine fitted a 600+hp big stroked Barton Hemi into his HemiCuda that looks completely stock. He hates it and no longer drives it. With BFGs on 15-inch rallye wheels it is a death trap. It gets out of shape really easily with little throttle. In the wet it is almost completely undriveable.

I agree, that's exactly what I DON'T want to happen. For me, 600 fly hp is about the limit for a street e-body. I'll tickle the suspension a little and get it dialed in but yeah, 550-600hp sounds good to me. Not sure I follow on your first comment. Mine is "only" a 440 as well.


Thanks guys! I'll talk to the engine builder and if and when I need advice or specifics like part #s etc I'll be sure to ask.

[Moparal]

I just built a little 499 by useing a 72 400 block. It has around 11.5 -1 comp  maybe a bit more on steel 906 heads and a lunati solid cam.  It's a little quick reving screamer and makes as much power as the other posters, but I didnt buy a kit, I just bought the pieces and did it myself.  To get a good street worthy distant runner stroker, you really need some good after market flowing heads to make big numbers and keep some manners while driving. 600 plus hp is kinds hard to build as a country cruiser if you can't let the stroke breath. Best of luck on the build.  Try to focus on a 10.5 to 1 engine for fuel availability when you start searching for your parts, while useing aluminum heads

[brads70]

Yeah but mine is only a 440.
I am making between 500 and 550 lbs/ft of torque between 2000-5000rpm.

But make sure you don't go too big on the power.
A mate of mine fitted a 600+hp big stroked Barton Hemi into his HemiCuda that looks completely stock. He hates it and no longer drives it. With BFGs on 15-inch rallye wheels it is a death trap. It gets out of shape really easily with little throttle. In the wet it is almost completely undriveable.

 I agree my Buick is like that. I call it a pitbull with aids to drive! It WAS fun the first week, then......
I'm thinking either a 451 or 470 with my Stage 6 heads ,roller hyd.cam and a nice light but durable crank, rods, etc.. I like them to rev quick and be durable! I'm still researching my options too? So many opinions my head gets to spinning?

[somedaysoon]

 If you're happy with what you have as far as streetable, then keep it and do power adders, it'll be cheaper and still give you the power on demand. Unless you're really wanting to put together another motor.  Pete

[femtnmax]

How many of these big power street cars actually get it to the pavement?  Years ago my boss had only a 500hp 427 fairlane.  With street slicks he was goosing it and caught a pot hole...the car launched and flipped...completely totaled.   Another friend had a big block on short wheelbase.  The first night out it got squirrely and rolled... another total loss.  Do what you want of course, maybe get your "house" in order first.
 

[Carlwalski]

How many of these big power street cars actually get it to the pavement?  Years ago my boss had only a 500hp 427 fairlane.  With street slicks he was goosing it and caught a pot hole...the car launched and flipped...completely totaled.   Another friend had a big block on short wheelbase.  The first night out it got squirrely and rolled... another total loss.  Do what you want of course, maybe get your "house" in order first.
 

Exactly, no point making big hp and sitting in one spot at the lights in a big smoke show. Pointless.


Thanks Bullitt, I have A/C so I doubt that kit will work without mods, I'd really like to stay with the trusty 4bbl setup, thanks all the same for the heads up. Sure looks like one kick ass kit.

If you're happy with what you have as far as streetable, then keep it and do power adders, it'll be cheaper and still give you the power on demand. Unless you're really wanting to put together another motor.  Pete

I don't mind the engine how it is, it's super smooth and a dream to drive but lacks grunt. I know 100% the cam is a major part of this but still, I can't just replace the cam. If I pull the engine I may as well tickle it up. Out of curiosity, what FI methods are you referring to? Something like the underhood SCs? Then I'd need to forge the engine and bottom end, so if I went they way I would just build the engine.




After more research, I would like to stay under 512. I didn't realise there was some big factors on going larger like the oil pick up, external pumps and other engine work that is needed to fit the larger components. 440 Source has a good and bad name on Google and Moparts. Some don't like their cheap goods, others have had no issues but it seems that they aren't very good at covering their parts if they fail. Being so far away doing this, that isn't a good thing. I can't just put the stuff in the back of the truck and take it back to them lol. at this stage, when I do get into this, I might be better to piece together my components with your guys help.



Thanks lads!

[Chryco Psycho]

I like the 512 as it will bolt in with no mods , just some minor clearancing inside the block & the advantage is it uses the longer 7.1" rods so it maintains a good rod ratio , bigger has more serious clearance problems , smaller has a worse rod ratio . I see the 512 as the best of both worlds for a long life street engine , you will make more power using better heads than the irons ones I used not that the #s I made were bad .
 I would love to visit NZ Carl

[Carlwalski]

I like the 512 as it will bolt in with no mods , just some minor clearancing inside the block & the advantage is it uses the longer 7.1" rods so it maintains a good rod ratio , bigger has more serious clearance problems , smaller has a worse rod ratio . I see the 512 as the best of both worlds for a long life street engine , you will make more power using better heads than the irons ones I used not that the #s I made were bad .
 I would love to visit NZ Carl

Trust me CP, I'd love to fly you out here but yeah.

OK, you have me sold on if I go stroker, to go 512. Have you yourself ever had issues with 440 Source? Last but not least. What kind of ball park flywheel power will I make with a 512 kit, big carb, ported stock heads and a good street cam? 525hp area if it's tuned right?

[moper]

How much money (in US funds so I can gage it...lol) are you looking to spend on this upgrade? Is your 440 the numbers matching for the car?  What is you performance expectation for the car?

On the 'source product... The quality is the same regardless of who sells the parts. They neeed a little work to be "right", but they are generally usable and cost effective. I don't believe regardless of the miles that buying a kit and dropping it into your block is a good idea. I would start with a std bore block and store what you have if it's original, or sell it if it's not.

The last 512 I did had a 6bbl and is a flat tappet, 10.8:1 that makes about 600ft of torque at 4K. It's in a 4sp with a 3.54 dana and in 3rd at 60mph the car will go sideways with 275/60/15s. The owner wanted big power, and he got it, and he has to concentrate when driving or he'll wreck. Needless to say the car doesnt get driven that much. That uses cleaned up RPM heads and IIRC the total cost was about $9K using my block.

[Carlwalski]

How much money (in US funds so I can gage it...lol) are you looking to spend on this upgrade? Is your 440 the numbers matching for the car?  What is you performance expectation for the car?

On the 'source product... The quality is the same regardless of who sells the parts. They neeed a little work to be "right", but they are generally usable and cost effective. I don't believe regardless of the miles that buying a kit and dropping it into your block is a good idea. I would start with a std bore block and store what you have if it's original, or sell it if it's not.

The last 512 I did had a 6bbl and is a flat tappet, 10.8:1 that makes about 600ft of torque at 4K. It's in a 4sp with a 3.54 dana and in 3rd at 60mph the car will go sideways with 275/60/15s. The owner wanted big power, and he got it, and he has to concentrate when driving or he'll wreck. Needless to say the car doesnt get driven that much. That uses cleaned up RPM heads and IIRC the total cost was about $9K using my block.

Thanks Moper. 1 Kiwi dollar buys around .70 US. $100 US for me is around $142 NZ. Budget lol, not much hahaha. It all depends really, I can "probably" swing to $2-3K US for parts and I'm expecting the engine machine, install and build work to cost around $4K US. I'll do all the removal and install etc. Yes, that is correct, it's the #'s matching block. I'm wanting to have more grunt off the line, at present I can be cruising at 30mph down an urban street and if I want to give a little quick rev up (from 30mph to 50mph) just to show bystanders it's pickup, she basically falls flat on her face lol. I guess it feels like it has 2.76 gears (it has 3.91s).

I'd love to have more pep and more responsive power espeically down low but not so low or too much torque that traction becomes too much of an issue. Responsive is probably one of the things I'd like most. It currently takes a good amount of time to build up speed. I'd like to be able to 3/4 throttle it and have the front lift up and put me back in my seat a little. I don't really want that kind of power like your last 512 build, to me, that's not fun. Occasionally yes but not 100% of the time. My SRT10 Ram is like that (no weight in the rear) but only in damp or early morning frosty conditions, but, I know the feeling and it gets hairy sometimes, fast.

I'd like to keep this block, I know it's the #'s matching but I want to keep it #'s matching. I have always built my cars for me, not the next person. At this stage I'm thinking maybe not to go "so" wild? Keep things simple and safe, maybe around 500hp? Just as it is now, it's lacking the grunt I desire. I don't know but talking about it is definitely helping so thanks lads!!



Thanks,
Carl

[Chryco Psycho]

Gross hp #s for the 512 were 640Hp & 710 tq which was 396hp/460 tq at the tires , all done by 5600 rpm
I have had no problems with the 6 512s & 4 548s myself & my machinist have built , you may want to consider a block girdle with the build although I feel it would be unessisary in a typical street build where max rpm is about 6000 , above that it is good insurance

[Carlwalski]

Holy crap, awesome #'s CP, awesome #'s. That is too much for this car and my goals for this car. After hours upon hours of searching I'm starting to wonder if I should do a Stroker? I think I could get a good increase in power by just building a stout engine. My engine is already 0.30 (446ci ?) over. I've been over at the Dodge Charger forum and was in the proven thread. This build below was in there, that seems very doable. What do you think CP, maybe I should aim for around 500hp?

I saw this article at Car Craft's website, and hope it helps somebody as a reference.  I don't know if this link will work, or how long it will work, but here's where I got it (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0611_performance_engine_combinations/mopar_performance.html):


On a dyno, this combo made 527 hp and 557 lb-ft. The peak horsepower was achieved at 5,600 rpm, and the peak torque occurred at 4,100 rpm, making over 500 lb-ft from 2,900 rpm all the way to 5,500 rpm. In fact, the average torque throughout the entire pull was 529 lb-ft. Even with all that power, it still pulled 12 in-Hg at an idle, just perfect for the street.

JMS Racing Engines
Monrovia, CA
626/357-2718
jmsracing.com

Parts List      

Edelbrock RPM Chrysler heads - Part# 60929 - $1,360
Edelbrock RPM manifold - Part# 7193 - $200
KB Silvolite Pistons Part # KB237 - $315
ARP rod bolts Part # 135-6402 - $52
Lunati Cam/lifters Custom Lunati - $170
Crane 1.5 Rocker Arms - Part # 64790-1 - $350
Holley HP 950 - Part # 80496-1 - $680

TOTAL COST = $3,127

[Chryco Psycho]

I wouyld still do the 512 "
use iron head & a tamer cam & it will be perfect for what you want

[Carlwalski]

I wouyld still do the 512 "
use iron head & a tamer cam & it will be perfect for what you want

Thanks CP. By iron head you mean just port my stock heads, correct? What kind of cam do you think would suit a street car for my tastes using the 512ci kit? Part #? The 440 Source site states that; "The 17cc dished pistons pump gas compression ratio of 9.5 with factory style cast iron heads". Does that compression sound good to you for what my goals are? Last but not least, are the 440 Source pistons forged?


As always, your info and help is much appreciated.