Carb Help Needed - Please!!!

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Offline cwestra

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2010 - 08:30:32 AM »
If your measurements are correct, with regard to the mark locations where you no longer detent the piston rising and the mark location where you feel it going back down, then TDC should be split between the 2 points.  Assuming their may be some measurement error in these points, the 0° mark on the tape may be the actual TDC.

I am curious, though, why the timing tape is in a different location than the original timing mark in the damper.  Maybe I missed something earlier in the thread.  Remember, there are 2 TDC's.  You want the one that is compressing not exhausting.  To be sure, rotate through again and stick you finger over the plug hole while you are rotating.  You should feel pressure when on compression stroke. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010 - 08:32:24 AM by cwestra »
Corey - in Northern Indiana




Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2010 - 08:34:01 AM »
I'm not familiar with the extra tape markings...their there for a reason.  What does it say at those lines?   ... 
Bottom Line  O on the tape on the HB & O on the tab should line up for TDC
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2010 - 12:39:23 PM »
All,

I reviewed the markings on the HB.  Just so you guys know, they are actually etched in the HB it is not tape.  The markings look like this....in between each number there are 9 smaller hash marks that make each group of 10.  I did not include them to save space.
60_____
50_____
40_____
30_____
20_____
10_____  Here is where it changes
__
__
_______ (It is at this point where I feel the piston start back in a downward motion)__
__
__
__
__
__
__
___0___ TDC Race Hemi
__
_______ TDC Street Hemi (it is at this point where I feel the piston stop moving upward)

I am assuming 0 is somewhere between the two marks.  I am assuming the transition occurs between the mark labeled TDC Street Hemi and ninth hash mark up where I indicate the other transition occurs. 

CWESTRA - The mark you refer to is 180 degrees away from the TDC markings you see in the earlier pics which if I am a guessing/betting kind of guy simply indicates the other TDC or 180degrees---yes? No? maybe? Am I crazy?

Anyway, I appreciate all of you guys help!!!

T1971Chally
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010 - 12:42:31 PM by t1971Chally »
Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2010 - 06:22:24 PM »
All,

I managed to snap a pic of the markings.  I believe they show up well.....so take a look.  Your thoughts are appreciated.  I do believe the timing is set to the first line labeled "TDC Street Hemi" (or the "0" line so close hard to tell) and the first LONG line "TDC Race Hemi" prior to 10 degrees with TDC somewhere in the middle. 

Here is the pic....

T1971Chally
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010 - 06:25:34 PM by t1971Chally »
Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Carb/Timing Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2010 - 06:37:29 PM »


The only thing bothering me about the idea above, is the distributor vac adv hits the Edelbrock intake (there is a large riser present that is used to mount something...it has a tapped hole in the top of it.  I will try to take a pic of it and post it).  Anyway, I do not have much travel left in the distributor.

Bullitt, I appreciate yours and everyone else's help on here.  Without you guys, I would be sitting here wondering what to do next. 

Thanks...a bunch!!!

T1971Chally

 you can fix this by moving all the the wires one position around the cap & rotating the dist away from the intake by 1 position on the cap

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2010 - 06:39:20 PM »
so wahat are you trying to accomplish , if you feel the piston stop moving it will usually stop for approx 3 * at TDC , the center of the area where the piston is not moving is TDC

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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2010 - 07:12:11 PM »
Chryco,

Thanks for the info on fixing the lack of travel on the distributor.  The problem originally started out as a possible vacuum issue with the carb.  That led into checking timing which I thought or believed I needed to connect the time port vacuum up the vacuum adv on the dist.  After checking that set up I found the following: Initial Timing 22 + Vacuum Adv 25 + Mech Adv 22 = 67

By the way - Engine info:  440 bored 0.030"over, not a stock cam but not sure how large of one I have, Edelbrock 1803 800CFM Thunder Series 4BBL

SO, I disconnected the vacuum adv plugged off the port on the carb and vac adv which should leave me in the neighborhood of 22 initial and 22 mech adv = 44/45 ish total timing.  Question is:
1. Is 22 intial to much?
2. Is 45 total to high?
3. I have read along with what others posted on hear that initial should be around 15 and total no more than 38. But I am not sure with the Cam what affect it would have on timing.  I only have the following information on the cam:
Crane Cam 64-120-87(not sure if that is a part #), Gross Valve Lift Int: .450", Exh: 455", Intake Valve to Piston clearance 0.200+, Exhaust Valve to Piston Clearance 0.200"+, Valve Spring Installed Height 1.880", Valve Spring Seat Pressure: 105 pounds, Valve Spring Open Pressure: 298 pounds. 

For now, I am just trying to determine if the timing is ok?
If it is, great I will go back to the carb and focus there as I know if is running way too rich. 

If not, my problem is if I turn the distributor back any further the engine runs way to rough.  I cannot determine why I cant hit the 15* mark if that is where I need to be?

Chryco, I apologize for being long winded but wanted to give you all the information I could.....

T1971Chally
Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2010 - 07:21:22 PM »
PM with your Phone #
 generally you will hear popping through the exhaust above 2500 RPM if the timing is advanced too far , in the past I have had to weld the slots in the mechanical adavnce plate to get enough initial timing without over advancing at RPM , I woudl sacrifice some idle timing & quaility to get the right timing at RPM as the engine spend most of its timing int he powerband not at idle . Cam duration ,which is not listed , is the most critical part of the cam design . Have you checked the manifold vacuum at idle in gear yet , , you can pull the caps away above the metering rods & make sure they staying down at idle in gear , if they do not stay down you need to install al ighter spring under the metering rods so they will stay down , if the rods are up it will enrichen the idle & cause it to be rich so this could be the problem . the other issue is if you have low vacuum & the cylinders misfire causing the engine to make the desirable lope Raw fuel is being pushed into the exhaust & will always smell rich even with the carb tuned correctly
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010 - 07:29:14 PM by Chryco Psycho »

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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2010 - 07:38:26 PM »
Chryco,

PM sent with phone number....

T1971Chally
Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #39 on: March 17, 2010 - 08:19:02 PM »
T1971Chally   Your In Good Hands with Cryco.....of course he's gonna tell you to File 13 the timing light.... ;)
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #40 on: March 17, 2010 - 09:22:51 PM »
Bullitt,
I owe you for helping me through all of this...I have learned alot from you and I appreciate it!!! :cheers:

Chryco told me to file 13 my timing light and tools and forget it..... :eek2:      Just kidding!!!  :lol:

Chryco has provided me with a plan of attack that I will work on this weekend.  I will post the results of my efforts at that time.   :cooldancing:

Chryco, I meant what I said on the phone...mopar nationals coming soon ...August!!!  You are truly a Mopar Scholar!!! :worshippy

Maybe one day we can all meet and have a few beers together.....

Thanks for the help!!!  I will be in contact soon.....

T1971Chally

Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #41 on: March 17, 2010 - 09:27:12 PM »
Glad to Help
 Might have to try to make the Nats , you never know !!

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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2010 - 09:30:15 PM »
We want a video when your all tuned up
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2010 - 09:37:06 PM »
Bullitt,

No problem, a video would be cool!!!

T1971Chally
Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
:cheers:

Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Carb Help Needed - Please!!!
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2010 - 06:50:57 PM »
Chryco,

I managed to sneak out of work today a little early and work on the things we discussed.  Here is the results:
1. Pulled top of carb off checked floats = both were perfect.
2. Manifold vacuum in drive at idle = a steady 14"lbs.
3. Check of the metering rods in gear at idle = both are down no bouncing.

I will plan on running the other tests (60mph and 1/4mile) this weekend.  I was notified today that my TTi exhaust system is in so I am planning on installing it this weekend as well. 

Let me know if there is anything else I should check.

Thanks again for you help!!!

T1971Chally
Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
:cheers: