Help with Charging System upgrades

[glitch340]

So I bought the car as I've been talking about in Newb Intros... First thing to do was throw a new alternator on it because the battery won't charge. That didn't work, and neither did a new voltage regulator. After reading a lot more on here I found that the Chrysler electrical has a lot of issues. I've determined my choices are:
1) Run 10 or 12 gauge wire from the alternator drilled through the bulk connector and to the ammeter and then back to the battery, or
2) Run a 10 gauge wire to the battery straight off the alternator.
My biggest question is how does the voltage regulator play into this? If I test from the alternator positive to a ground it registers 19-30 volts or so, depending on RPM.  If I hold it off the correct wire of the voltage regulator rather than a ground I can get it to read a ~12.8 (between the alternator + and the wire off the regulator that goes back to the 'field' on the alternator) So where do I run my wires from in either 1 or 2 above? There were other issues like live ignition wiring that no longer had any insulation in places, so I'm almost tempted to get a new Painless harness, but everything seems to be working (except some gauges) and the battery doesn't drain with the car off. Any input would be awesome! Thanks guys!

[Bullitt-]

Bypass the ammeter,(fire hazard) go directly to the battery but be sure to add a fuse-able link for safety.
  Check that you have a motor to body ground strap, originally a braided wire running from the passenger side valve cover to the firewall... Burnish all connections having to do with charging & the battery. 

[glitch340]

but going directly from the alternator to the battery I test 19+ volts, do I need to come off of the voltage regulator?
Does anyone have original schematics?
I know to throw in fusible links, I'm going to pick some up tonight.
The motor to ground strap looks fine, but it's going to the firewall right next to the voltage regulator, rather than directly under it. Shouldn't change the resistance too much though.
My main concern is that prehaps the voltage regulator may be wired incorrectly. Or maybe the 'field' connections off of the alternator. On runs to an electric choke and then grounds, the other runs to the voltage regulator. and then into the harness somewhere. Any schematics would be really helpful.
Thanks for the advise Bullitt. I was thinking the ammeter would be safe as long as I made good connections on the back of it (maybe even add some arctic silver) and ran better wires through the firewall (either through the bulkhead or through grommets elsewhere).

[Bullitt-]

Diagrams
http://www.mymopar.com/72to76_wiring.htm
Hot wire goes straight from Alt. to battery...nothing to do with the regulator.
 

[Kapteenikosmos]

Also the 19+ volts  you are measuring from the alt is way too much. I'm not sure what's the limit on older alts but in newer cars the charging voltage is usually around 14.6 volts. 19+ volts will fry your battery very fast. So for some reason your voltage regulator isn't working, mayby wrongly connected or something?

[glitch340]

Yeah, that's what I was saying about the voltage regulator acting up, I'll have a look at those diagrams. I'll double check the wiring and trace those wires to see where they go and get back to you guys. Thanks again

[Chryco Psycho]

sounds like a bad alternator to me , diode may be shorted or blown to be putting out 19 v
the field is constantly powered , the ground out of the field is switched through the voltage regulator , you should have an alt with 2 field terminals on the back 

[glitch340]

Well I'm stumped!!! I compared everything to the wiring diagrams, and the ignition and field terminals on the voltage regulator were flipped. I decided to switch them so that the 'f' terminal runs only to a field terminal on the alternator and the 'I' ternimal runs to the wire that connects to the ignition and field terminal and whatnot. I fired it up and now rather than getting 19+ volts, I'm testing only about 0.23 volts from the positive terminal on the alternator to the ground...
Any ideas anybody? Could this have been from it being wired wrong before? Maybe a bad alternator? Bad voltage regulator?I don't think the alternator runs to too many components right now, could it be because it doesn't connect to the battery so the regulator is only producing a minimal amount of volts until it is needed?

[Bullitt-]

Which terminal does not make a difference when everything is working.   Either there is no signal (power) getting to the field coil  or the diodes could be bad. Check that power is coming through the terminals if so replace the diodes.

As for the too high voltage, I had never heard of that, a google search lays blame to the voltage regulator.   



    
Alternator Repair Kit
Product Line:   Echlin Ignition
Part Number:       ECH ARK100
Price:       
Price
Unit
    :
 :
   11.49
Each
Features & Benefits       Used on Chrysler Square Back Alternators.
Warranty       Limited 12 Months
Attributes       Contents : Kit contains Brush Sets, Diodes, Insulator and hardware.
Material Safety Data Sheet       There is no MSDS for this item
Application Information:       1973 Dodge Challenger
Per Car Qty: 1

[glitch340]

Thanks bullitt, I've tried doing a few google searches too, but I've already swapped the voltage regulator. It sounds like the field gets stuck open when the alternator is overcharging, and the field gets stuck closed when the alternator is undercharging. So somehow flipping the leads on the VR must have closed the field terminals... but I still don't know which part isn't working properly... I swapped the VR once and it did the same thing, and the alternator is a fresh rebuilt unit. If I take the alternator into the parts store can they test it even though it doesn't have an internal voltage regulator? I used to be the person all my friends asked for help when they had issues with their battery or alternator, but I'm totally stumped on this car. I guess I'll get that alternator tested. Any other ideas on what could be going on?

[Bullitt-]

They can test...you can test.. just supply an external power source to each field coil , run a jumper from the pos. battery terminal  to the spades on the back I'd put a switch on it for convenience... it should put out power then.

Here's a good article on how the alternator works
http://www.alternatorparts.com/understanding_alternators.htm

[glitch340]

So... been doing a lot of research, rewiring and testing and every other thing possible. I reran new wires from the battery and alternator to the ammeter drilling through the bulkhead connector and running them straight through. I brought the remanufactured alternator back to CarQuest, and it was bad. So they warrantied it and got me another one. This one seems to be doing the same thing, but I thought I'd double check with you guys if you could give me some ideas of what else to test. The alternator is only putting out about .8 Amps right now. When I test the field wires, they both read about 10.9 volts, but I know the green one should be reading Zero. The battery was reading 12.6 at the same time, so I have been checking through the ignition wire for a voltage drop, and I think it's at the bulkhead connector.

SO... Is that the only issue? Or is there a second problem causing the other field wire to not be Zero volts (grounded).
I've bought two Voltage Regulators, both of which give the same results as stated above, are they both bad?

Thanks for all the help so far! I can't wait to get this figured out!!!

[Bullitt-]

    Not having had to troubleshoot wiring issues I can't say where else there may be problems..
    I'd test the alternator like I suggested above, until you know it's good the rest can't be properly diagnosed. 


    If you have to go back for another alternator have it tested before you take it.
 

[glitch340]

one of the field connections should read battery, and the other should be grounded to full field the alternator, right? I tried grounding the green one, and there was a good sized spark on that spade, and the alternator voltage jumped up a lot, like it maxed out my voltmeter when it was on the 20 volt setting. Same thing happened to the last alternator. Would there be a reason to put battery voltage to both field terminals? Would that cause the alternator to produce less voltage?

[Bullitt-]

one of the field connections should read battery, and the other should be grounded to full field the alternator, right?

No they are both hot...one energizes when the car is running the other when the regulator senses the battery needs charging.      INCORRECT