Is it ok to epoxy over a little surface rust?

[Challenga]

I am disassembling the front of my car and epoxy primering each piece.  I can't get 100% of the rust off of some of the items.  Like the radiator support.  I have sanded it and wire wheeled it, but there is some rust that I just can't get to.  I am not taking it to sandblast.  Is it ok to epoxy over the the little bit of rust I can't get to or should I put some rust encapsulator on it before epoxy priming it? 

[Alaskan_TA]

Any rust you cover over will keep rusting.

Treat it with something like Ospho or Rust Bullet, make sure you get it ALL or it will be back in no time at all.

[ChallengerHK]

I'm not a body man, but a couple of years back I was trying to clean rust stains from my trunk mat and the only thing I found that worked was oxalic acid. Might work here 

[Eastwood Company]

You need to treat that rust or it will surely creep up/out as time goes on. Try hitting it with our aerosol of rust converter: http://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-rust-converter.html?srccode=cuda to get to those hard to reach areas. Then follow with some rust encapsulator: http://www.eastwood.com/rust-encapsulator.html?srccode=cuda to seal the rust out. At that point you can continue with your priming as usual. Hope that helps!

-Matt/EW

[Challenga]

I put some rust converter on it. Do I really need to put encapsulator on it or can I just epoxy prime it?  It is really just where the bolt holes are and around the places that the threaded clips are.  I sanded it down, but there is tiny spots of rust in the pits, where i couldn't get to.  Am I worrying about somethign I don't need to worry about?

[elitecustombody]

if you have air compressor, pick up handheld spot speed blaster at harbor freight, hit those spots before using anything

[Eastwood Company]

I put some rust converter on it. Do I really need to put encapsulator on it or can I just epoxy prime it?  It is really just where the bolt holes are and around the places that the threaded clips are.  I sanded it down, but there is tiny spots of rust in the pits, where i couldn't get to.  Am I worrying about somethign I don't need to worry about?

You don't HAVE to. But I suggest for full treatment, to seal with encapsulator. But the convertor may be just fine. We just suggest to follow with encapsulator for full treatment. Any visible rust is the tip of the iceberg and will spread. So you are on the right track treating it now before it gets worse. 

[Challenga]

Stefan - Good idea.  I've looked at that little spot sand blaster before and thought "what the heck is this little thing for?"  Looks like I found a use for it. 

On this round I am just going to spray the epoxy since I already put the rust encapsulator on and have the pieces prep'd and ready to go.  I'll update this thread in about 10 years to let you know if it worked!!

[UKcuda]

The sort of rust you are talking about I have painted over on a few cars even on the exterior of main body panels using two pack epoxy and it has been no trouble at all even after years.  And it does rain quite a lot here !!

You have to use a two pack system and you have to be very careful only to rub it down a tiny bit before you paint over it.

If you go this route then I would say put on the epoxy straight after the wire brush and make sure the metal is really 100% dry.  If it's a bit dusty it doesn't matter as long as it's dry - and I would advise don't use anything else first or you will just increase the risk of sealing in something else that you don't want there.

Any obviously it's no good if moisture can still penetrate from the other side.

[OxfordMotorSports]

 

Guys - there is NO substitute for proper rust removal. REMOVE THE RUST. SPOT BLAST or CUT IT OUT! Don't cover it up with ANYTHING. If you believe in rust converters you may be interested in a piece of the Brooklyn bridge I have for sale also. Buy a cheap little hand held spot blaster. It will try your patience constantly refilling it but it will get the job done. Better than that - buy a small 40lbs sandblast unit for small spots. Covering rust in any way shape or form is pointless. Rust is a electrochemical process. Blast it - kill it - cut it out.

Todd

[UKcuda]

Guys - . REMOVE THE RUST. SPOT BLAST or CUT IT OUT! Don't cover it up with ANYTHING. If you believe in rust converters you may be interested in a piece of the Brooklyn bridge I have for sale also. Buy a cheap little hand held spot blaster. It will try your patience constantly refilling it but it will get the job done. Better than that - buy a small 40lbs sandblast unit for small spots. Covering rust in any way shape or form is pointless. Rust is a electrochemical process. Blast it - kill it - cut it out.

Todd

It's precisely because it's an electrochemical process that sealing it away from the reagents stops the reaction.

I agree there is nothing better than total rust removal, but that doesn't mean it is mandatory in every circumstance.  Not everyone is on a quest for perfection, and those that are will seldom find it.

I can only speak from my own experience of using epoxy in this way on at least three cars I can think of.  I suppose I may have been fooled by the way I just got on with my life and the rust never came back, at least not during my ownership of the cars, which was several years.  Of course I can't testify to what happened after that.

I don't like rust converters though, they just get in the way of the epoxy 

[OxfordMotorSports]

It's precisely because it's an electrochemical process that sealing it away from the reagents stops the reaction.

I agree there is nothing better than total rust removal, but that doesn't mean it is mandatory in every circumstance.  Not everyone is on a quest for perfection, and those that are will seldom find it.

I can only speak from my own experience of using epoxy in this way on at least three cars I can think of.  I suppose I may have been fooled by the way I just got on with my life and the rust never came back, at least not during my ownership of the cars, which was several years.  Of course I can't testify to what happened after that.

I don't like rust converters though, they just get in the way of the epoxy 

I am well schooled in the science and chemical process of rust. You are correct about sealing it with epoxy. Seal the rust - slow the process. A close friend of mine restores sea containers in Florida - a worst case situation for rust issues - and rust converter isn't part of his refinishing process. He has a sandblasting operation second to none.

You are also right about not everyone seeks perfection but you are incorrect about the ability to find it. All the tools, parts and chemicals are out there and available to those who have the time and money to obtain them. It comes down to what the individual wishes to accomplish. I've painted over a thousand cars in the last 33 years and learned early on that the foundation of a paint job is most important. Painting a car isn't that difficult - getting it ready to paint - well that's another story.

For those of you that don't think perfection is possible check out a SEMA or DUB car show. You'll see plenty of perfection. Time - money - and a ton of patience.

Killing rust IS mandatory in all the vehicles I restore. I never leave any behind.

Todd

[UKcuda]

Yes well I'm sure your work is very nice and it's reassuring to know you are "well schooled in the science and chemical process of rust"

I'm not alltogether unqualified in that department myself, but I don't want this to descend into a pissing contest so I'll say no more about that.

.......and I didn't say you can't find perfection, I said those who go looking for it seldom find it.  It was intended more as a philosophical comment.

Let's not forget the original poster was only looking at treating some very small areas of surface rust on his radiator support panel.

Peace and love man 

[E-Body Products]

You can try the rust convertor, but in my experience it will only come back and still grows underneath the cover-up. 

I would recommend that you use Oxi-Solve or Pickle-X (sp?).  This actually removes the rust (may take a few applications) and leaves a phosphate coating which promotes adhesion.  You apply the stuff on the bare metal and then, let it set for about 20-30 minutes.  Next, you rinse with water (yes water) and the water reacts with the chemicals to create a phosphate coating.  The same type coating that OEMs use to protect bare metal prior to paint.

Eastwood caries the Oxi-Solve product and you should (no, make that must) wear gloves during application.  The stuff will eat you up if you don't.  Here is a picture of my hood that we applied the Oxi-Solve to.  It left a great finish on that was ready for primer.

As Stefan noted, it is also a good idea to fully remove the rust by blasting.

Hope this helps...

[BIGSHCLUNK]

I've used the stuff from POR-15 has the same reaction. Forget the name and I'm to lazy to run to the garage right now. Seems to work well...