front suspension questions...

[HP2]

i got everthing stock under the car

Oh, that's mucho better. I'd say you need to get the basic overhaul kit of ball joints,rod ends, and bushings. Get the offset bushing kit to compliment the alignment. If your steering box isn't leaking like a seive, leave it. It is does, swap out for a basic rebuilt unit. Firm Feel boxes are the best, but if you ditching all of the current set up in the coming years, no sense overspending if you don't have to. You can keep the stock sway bar if you like to keep cost down, but you are giving up some cornering performance. The espo version of the factory hemi style xhd springs would do nicely to compliment this arrangement.

Thanks to HP2 for the input.  I was planning the 1" T-bars based on what I've been reading on this site.  I'll order up the offset bushings to go with the other pile of Moog boxes from Rock Auto.  One more question: stock 318 rear springs to go with 1" T-bars and a 1.125" front sway bar, or move up to the XHD springs?

The 1" bars have been on sale for a while so they are a great bargin right now. They may not be optimal, but they are a big step up in performance. For the rear, I'd recommend the step up to the XHD style, or if you budget is tight, keep the 318 leafs and add a sway bar.

[shadango]

The 1" bars have been on sale for a while so they are a great bargin right now. They may not be optimal, but they are a big step up in performance.

    I cant believe how flat my car handles with the 1" t bars......I welded in sway bar brackets for the front but didnt buy the sway bar yet....I am wondering if I even need it now...LOL

[cudazappa]

add the 1 1/8" sway bar.  OMG I am so happy with my challenger right now (1" t-bars and 1 1/8" sway).  Its a good starting point, but I have a feeling next year I'm going to the XV level 1 kit because I think that package is pretty smartly priced...  and its a couple steps above what I have now.

[Strawdawg]

For the rear, I'd recommend the step up to the XHD style, or if you budget is tight, keep the 318 leafs and add a sway bar.

Assuming that the rear springs are going to be replaced.....would you prefer a spring with less rate such as the 318 with a rear bar, or would you rather have the XHD without a bar....

As above, I have a stock 318 suspension with a 440.  Given the age, I suspect everything needs to be replaced and am trying to narrow down the direction   I keep looking at both the XV and the Hotchkiss as options to upgrading the stock set up, but, given the disparities between the two kits, and knowing that either way I am going to have to do a lot of rework, or replacement, I am growing more indecisive by the day

[HP2]

If I was going to replace them anyway, I'd probably step up to the XHD units because they have leaf placement to help control the torque bias a big block will throw at it.

Here is my view on the differences between XV1 and Hotchkis as both kits address shortcomings in the stock combination but they do it in differing way. XV uses increases in wheel rates and shock valving to provide improvements without addressing any geometery changes. Hotchkis addresses geometry with  less emphasis on the wheel rates. If you ever going to be pushing your car to the limit and are not constrained by rules limiting component location, then Hotchkis is the way to go. If you want better on ramp and around town performance or are rules limited in changes, XV is a better choice.

[Strawdawg]

nothing is ever clear, is it?

I will probably be gone before I ever finish any of my current projects The first new car I ever bought was a '65 Plymouth 383/4 spd after I got out of college so I am not stretching the point very much.

This car will be a driver...therefore I am not constrained to any rules...and not being anything special, I don't feel the need for being a purist in any sense when it comes to what goes on it.  I am just trying to figure out what is a rational approach.

I don't know if either Hotchkiss or XV are rational/reasonable/sensible, or should I just put it together piecemeal with a general plan.  I have a couple of Buicks with some mods to the suspensions toward overall handling and they are a pleasure to drive.  I really enjoy decent handling as well as straight line performance and feel that a driver should be capable of both without too much bias toward the straight line aspect.

As I tear into this car, I have discovered that it is a much larger project than I originally perceived as I have found nothing on the car that appears to have been done properly.  I am trying to look at the horizon while working on the basics. 

[dodj]

   I cant believe how flat my car handles with the 1" t bars......I welded in sway bar brackets for the front but didnt buy the sway bar yet....I am wondering if I even need it now...LOL

When you add in the sway bars, you will again be amazed at how much better it handles.

[SBDave]

I put over 300 miles on my car this weekend and it handled great!  My car has XV's Level 1 kit but I have not installed the sway bars yet.  I drove from Santa Barbara, CA down through Los Angeles to Irvine for a road racing/auto-x event.  I didn't compete but I will next time.  All the advice here is right on track.

XV and Hotchkis have great packages they can put together for you or you can pick and choose what components you want from each company (or get something similarly spec'd from another company).   XV is even selling their tuned shocks separately from their suspension packages now, and they have a new range of shocks available.  I believe Hotchkis is working on having their own shock packages soon too. 

I believe there was an article in Hot Rod magazine where they tested the performance gain from each component as they modified a car.  Tires/wheels were first and got one of the largest gains.  Then shocks/springs and then sway bars.  I think you will get the biggest gains from just doing those mods and having a good alignment.  If you aren't planning on racing and are planning on redoing everything soon then I would probably just stick to those...and probably just piece together a setup based on whats cheap.  If the car has the original shocks still on it than probably any new shock will help a lot.

Good luck!
-Dave

[TROUBLE987]

If I was going to replace them anyway, I'd probably step up to the XHD units because they have leaf placement to help control the torque bias a big block will throw at it.

Here is my view on the differences between XV1 and Hotchkis as both kits address shortcomings in the stock combination but they do it in differing way. XV uses increases in wheel rates and shock valving to provide improvements without addressing any geometery changes. Hotchkis addresses geometry with  less emphasis on the wheel rates. If you ever going to be pushing your car to the limit and are not constrained by rules limiting component location, then Hotchkis is the way to go. If you want better on ramp and around town performance or are rules limited in changes, XV is a better choice.

the XHD,Im guessing is the mopar heavyduty?im wanting my car to set about 11/2 inchs below stock,do you think they will work?

[SBDave]

Here's how my car sits with the XV level 1 kit.  I also have the leaf spring brackets with 1" lowering holes.  I think I could go about 1/2" lower in the back if I use lowering blocks and the normal hole in the leaf spring bracket... which I will probably end up trying in about two months.

thanks,
Dave

[TROUBLE987]

Here's how my car sits with the XV level 1 kit.  I also have the leaf spring brackets with 1" lowering holes.  I think I could go about 1/2" lower in the back if I use lowering blocks and the normal hole in the leaf spring bracket... which I will probably end up trying in about two months.

thanks,
Dave

dave i like the way your care sits,looks good..Im getting xv stuff a little alone,got some of the stiffening stuff..but nothing else..

[Aussie Challenger]

   Your Cuda looks to be sitting right but that is my opinion.   

[SBDave]

Thanks!  That's as low as you can go in the front with out using drop spindles.  The front is just barely touching the bump stops, which I'm going to modify so it has a little more clearance.  If you look at the Hotchkis Challenger they used some cut down bump stops.  I'm not sure if they sell them or not but it would be worth looking into.  I will probably try to modify mine myself.

I might have to bring the front up a bit when I put wider wheels/tires on.  So keep that in mind.

Did you get the radiator cross member from XV?  They said that after sub frame connectors the radiator piece helped the most for rigidity.  I'm thinking about making my own boxed radiator cross member after I take care of some other issues.

-Dave

[TROUBLE987]

Thanks!  That's as low as you can go in the front with out using drop spindles.  The front is just barely touching the bump stops, which I'm going to modify so it has a little more clearance.  If you look at the Hotchkis Challenger they used some cut down bump stops.  I'm not sure if they sell them or not but it would be worth looking into.  I will probably try to modify mine myself.

I might have to bring the front up a bit when I put wider wheels/tires on.  So keep that in mind.

Did you get the radiator cross member from XV?  They said that after sub frame connectors the radiator piece helped the most for rigidity.  I'm thinking about making my own boxed radiator cross member after I take care of some other issues.

-Dave

yea i did,i got all the stuff,i want to get there frontend next,but its going to have to wait right now,i need to put some of these parts on the car first so ill have room for new stuff..also im building a house too,so the wife is blowing thru all my funds

[500Stroker]

Here is the diagram for installing the offset bushings to get the most + caster.