What ECU box these days?

[dodj]

The Mopar ECU is 38 YO technology. I've seen numerous dyno tests that rate it about the same as a good point ignition. It is what it is.

:iagree:That's pretty much it. Does ok but won't set any records. 40 yr old technology is good for some things, but not ignition systems. We can do waaaay better now.

[shadango]

:iagree:That's pretty much it. Does ok but won't set any records. 40 yr old technology is good for some things, but not ignition systems. We can do waaaay better now.

i am not arguing with anyone that the stock style ECU is all that great compared to other complete systems on the market.

But I am not in the position to re-outfit my car with a $600 system.   For now, I am keeping my stock elec. system.....had some issues at higher rpms, so thought I would swap in the chrome box, which is suppose to be set up for the higher rpms better.

That said....."waaaaaaaay better" how?

Even if you "move up" to an aftermarket ignition, you are STILL only turning the spark on and off....not like todays systems on "modern" cars where you are tailoring spark and fuel to numerous sensor inputs.  Yeah, the aftermarket systems can in theory make the spark somewhat hotter, multi-fire for lower rpms to smooth out idle, etc.....but only if you also replace the coil and distributor - both weak links in the 40 year old system if your goal is "high performance".....

Throw enough money at something and you should get SOMETHING in return. Replacing a $70 part with a $600 system  SHOULD net you something.  The question is, what is that "something" and will a street car even benefit from it? Not looking for an answer there.....just a hypothetical.

I am Ok with the "40 year old technology" for now.....if I wanted the latest and greatest technology, i would buy the whole system -- from igntion to fuel to trans to traction control  -- in the form of a 2010 Challenger rather than a 72.   
 

[GoodysGotaCuda]

i am not arguing with anyone that the stock style ECU is all that great compared to other complete systems on the market.

But I am not in the position to re-outfit my car with a $600 system.   For now, I am keeping my stock elec. system.....had some issues at higher rpms, so thought I would swap in the chrome box, which is suppose to be set up for the higher rpms better.

That said....."waaaaaaaay better" how?

Even if you "move up" to an aftermarket ignition, you are STILL only turning the spark on and off....not like todays systems on "modern" cars where you are tailoring spark and fuel to numerous sensor inputs.  Yeah, the aftermarket systems can in theory make the spark somewhat hotter, multi-fire for lower rpms to smooth out idle, etc.....but only if you also replace the coil and distributor - both weak links in the 40 year old system if your goal is "high performance".....

Throw enough money at something and you should get SOMETHING in return. Replacing a $70 part with a $600 system  SHOULD net you something.  The question is, what is that "something" and will a street car even benefit from it? Not looking for an answer there.....just a hypothetical.

I am Ok with the "40 year old technology" for now.....if I wanted the latest and greatest technology, i would buy the whole system -- from igntion to fuel to trans to traction control  -- in the form of a 2010 Challenger rather than a 72.   
 

Sorry, but what is this $600 system? I have a USED $100 6a as my ignition, $50 coil, and a stock distributor. What else do you need besides a $50 coil and a $160 or so Summit Digital box?..The factory distributor does fine at distributing spark. Advance curve may not be 'perfect' or adjustable like the expensive units, but it does its job just fine.

[shadango]

may not be 'perfect' or adjustable like the expensive units, but it does its job just fine.

I guess thats my point....."whatever works".   After lots of internet snooping, sure seems like there isnt much of a benefit of using a naftermarket spark box if you are not going all teh way with distributor, coil ,etc upgrades.

And those kits seem pretty pricey (upwards of 300-400 bucks...I was using 600 as an exemplary figure).

By nature, I am nota fan of using used electroics....so I would be buying new...

But again like you said, whatever works...The Jacobs box I talked about got me nothing...so I guess I am skeptical about them all.   

[GoodysGotaCuda]

I noticed a change with my 6a box. Works just fine for me. I'd buy a Summit Digital box for $160 if it did bite the dust 

Nobody is trying to get you to buy something you do not want to. But saying today's spark control boxes and coils are no better than that of the 70s is a bit of a tall order. Are you sure you are making the same comparison? On the internet? Upgrading a stock LS1 Camaro ignition to an aftermarket box would certainly not be much of an improvement. 70s electronic, I feel would be. My opinion is just another one that is on the internet now. I've scoped and seen the multiple spark out of my 6a. I noticed a cleaner idle and better cold start with it. And that box came out years ago! Digital boxes hold the multispark throughout all rpms. Upgrading the coil to one that runs off 12v versus the factory 5v (or whichever it's at) will give a hotter spark. Without a doubt.

There are improvements over the stock system. I have had issues with factory electronic ignition ecus as well. People don't carry spares because they never fail either. Yes it's easier to swap out a stock ignition ecu than an aftermarket ignition box. I have plenty of faith in my ignition box, it's yet to let me down, and it's a used box which you don't have much faith in to begin with.

Just my experience. Just my 2cents. If you wanna run the stock ignition setup, it'll 'work' just fine. is it the best? No. Aftermarket box the best? No. But it's better.

-Mike

[UKcuda]

I'm not dissing the Mopar boxes but I am a big fan of the GM HEI module.

TFI coil ($25) plus HEI module (quality one) $25 = 50,000 volt secondary output

so that's 1,000 volts per dollar.

No other system can match that.

It's not plug and play and it's maybe not up to racing rpm (I don't know it might be), but as far as I'm concerned it ticks all the other boxes big time.

[shadango]

I noticed a change with my 6a box. Works just fine for me. I'd buy a Summit Digital box for $160 if it did bite the dust 

Nobody is trying to get you to buy something you do not want to. But saying today's spark control boxes and coils are no better than that of the 70s is a bit of a tall order. Are you sure you are making the same comparison? On the internet? Upgrading a stock LS1 Camaro ignition to an aftermarket box would certainly not be much of an improvement. 70s electronic, I feel would be. My opinion is just another one that is on the internet now. I've scoped and seen the multiple spark out of my 6a. I noticed a cleaner idle and better cold start with it. And that box came out years ago! Digital boxes hold the multispark throughout all rpms. Upgrading the coil to one that runs off 12v versus the factory 5v (or whichever it's at) will give a hotter spark. Without a doubt.

There are improvements over the stock system. I have had issues with factory electronic ignition ecus as well. People don't carry spares because they never fail either. Yes it's easier to swap out a stock ignition ecu than an aftermarket ignition box. I have plenty of faith in my ignition box, it's yet to let me down, and it's a used box which you don't have much faith in to begin with.

Just my experience. Just my 2cents. If you wanna run the stock ignition setup, it'll 'work' just fine. is it the best? No. Aftermarket box the best? No. But it's better.

-Mike

You obviously feel strongly about your decision, and I am not gonna argue either side cause I am a newbie here and to these systems...they do say experience is the best teacher....I have yet to gain that experience.

I simply said that I am OK with not spending a lot of money right now and will try the Mopar box.  The summit box at $160 sounds like a deal if it really does make a huge difference.

If you scan the web there have been plenty of people who have had issues with ANY of the various products/boxes out there, though.

I got the Mopar chrome box in the post today and it says "made in USA" so I am happy for now....we'll see I guess.

Here is the way I see it -- in our stock systems there is the coil, a ballast, the distributor with its pickup and the ECU.   It worked great 38 years ago and so it should work equally well today "for what it is".

Does that mean that improvements cannot be made? I didnt say that.

Nor did I say that today's spark systems werent better than the 40 year old technology that came with our cars.  It SHOULD be better, as its 8 times the cost (assuming a stock ECU at $20 versus your $160 box new)......you really should get something for that extra cost.

But from what I have read online, generally speaking, is that the aftermarket spark boxes show the most results with non-stock coil and distributor.  I am not talking about a .2 second difference in quarter mile times...right now that doesnt interest me (though I can understand why some would be interested in that)...I want seat of the pants "that is why I spent an extra couple hundred bucks" feeling.    Simply replace one piece of a 40 year old design and expect huge results?  I am skeptical.

I have seen plenty of people on either side of the line...some that say the aftermarket boxes are the cats meow and others who say they are not worth the powder to blow em to hell.

To me, it makes sense that in order to see a substantial difference you would need the whole enchilada to go with the aftermarket spark box....all the spark control does is turn the spark on and off when the distributor/pickup tells it to.  It replaces the on/off function of points.  I would guess it can also provide a STRONGER spark and also affect retard. etc......and perhaps that is the benefit of the aftermarket boxes.

If the coil and or the distributor is a weak link, i cant see how a better box along buys you much.

And who knows....maybe one day I will try the aftermarket route.....I would love to have the "multi fire" that claims to smooth out idle, as my idle sucks with the cam thats in it.

I am the kind of guy who isnt much for throwing money into something just to try it, especially when we are talking about replacing a system that works....I want proof that the investment is worth it.

And frankly, for every "Electronic boxes are great!" opinion I have read, I seem to have read another saying its a waste, for me, my research hasnt convinced me yet.

For now, I want to be able to drive the car reliably.  Hot rodding the ignition can come later when I figure out why the damn thing keeps dying.        Changing over to a whole new type of igntion system only introduces more variables for me to consider. So its back burnered for now.  But I do plan on continuing to read up on them and see what makes sense for me, so I really do appreciate this exhange.    

[71chally416]

I'm not dissing the Mopar boxes but I am a big fan of the GM HEI module.

TFI coil ($25) plus HEI module (quality one) $25 = 50,000 volt secondary output

so that's 1,000 volts per dollar.

No other system can match that.

It's not plug and play and it's maybe not up to racing rpm (I don't know it might be), but as far as I'm concerned it ticks all the other boxes big time.

The DUI (Davis unified ignition) seems to have all the HEI's good traits and none of it's known problems.

I chose the Digital-6 MSD with a stock distibutor simply because it has tremendous spark output along with several rev limiters and built retards for easier starting and retarding the timing automatically if using nitrous, all contained in one unit for under $300. The factory kit used to be a bargain when it was half the price it is now, but no longer. Don't know why the price doubled for the same thing.

And BTW, I kinda lost some respect for the factory conversion setup years ago when I witnessed my father in law pull off and hold each plug wire in his hand when he saw me trying to trace down a bad plug wire on my 440 Challenger using a plug wire puller and some insulated pliers. Don't think he'd wanna do that with the MSD

[Chryco Psycho]

I do that all the time with any ign system , as long as you are not touching the body in any way the spark will not ground through you

[GoodysGotaCuda]

For now, I want to be able to drive the car reliably.  Hot rodding the ignition can come later when I figure out why the damn thing keeps dying.        Changing over to a whole new type of igntion system only introduces more variables for me to consider. So its back burnered for now.  But I do plan on continuing to read up on them and see what makes sense for me, so I really do appreciate this exhange.   

Have fun with it, it can certainly be driven just fine regardless what you go with. Internet isn't everything. There are millions of opinions out there. Most of my decisions are based off of local and long time friends. Same thing goes with Jeep modifications. There are tons of options out there as far as modifying things, if everyone made junk they would not be in business anymore is my theory. It's ALL in what YOU want, if you feel comfortable with the stock ignition, like many others. No worries! Hop in it and drive the thing.

You must have some faith behind in what you are driving, if not, you won't enjoy it.

Not saying I don't drive my car without tools or a multimeter, but I sure would hop in it, gas up, and drive anywhere in it. But I've done lots of fixing and upgrading on things to get my faith in the car to that point. 

[71chally416]

I do that all the time with any ign system , as long as you are not touching the body in any way the spark will not ground through you

My father in law (RIP) was a double amputee due to Diabetes. He did this while sitting in his wheelchair resting his chest on the fender.

[Strawdawg]

I'm not dissing the Mopar boxes but I am a big fan of the GM HEI module.

TFI coil ($25) plus HEI module (quality one) $25 = 50,000 volt secondary output

so that's 1,000 volts per dollar.

No other system can match that.

It's not plug and play and it's maybe not up to racing rpm (I don't know it might be), but as far as I'm concerned it ticks all the other boxes big time.

I use the same thing except I use a Crane coil.    I first used this system on a Ford in vintage racing.  First we used the stock GM coil because we had nothing else.  It pulled 6200 on the straight away and that was it.  We changed to the Crane and it gained a 1000 rpm on the same straight away.  So, I used the same coil on my Challenger when I converted it.  I am not aware of any shortcomings as long as a good coil and module are used.  I power mine thru a relay for full power. 
Beats the heck out of ballast resistors, imo

I understand the Ford coils are very good quality as well.  Secret with the GM module is to get full voltage to them and use a heat sink.

For drivers, I am biased against MSD from several failures.  Never mounted one inside so maybe they just don't like heat...not sure. 

I remember the Jacobs...did nothing for me...   I don't think there is much magic in ignition systems, but, some of the features are really neat on race cars...for sure

[UKcuda]

Beats the heck out of ballast resistors, imo

I understand the Ford coils are very good quality as well.  Secret with the GM module is to get full voltage to them and use a heat sink.

I very much agree.  The HEI is not just a big switch and has two main advantages over the Mopar boxes:

1)  HEI uses no ballast, so the coil gets full voltage.  Some people think if you stick a 40,000 V coil on a Mopar system then you get a 40,000 V spark - you don't.  The ballast resistor on the primary side won't allow it to develop full power on the secondary side.

2)  with HEI you can use a very low impedence coil.  It's one reason why the Ford TFI coils work well with it - they are only 0.4 ohms.

Another advantage is you don't have to worry what coil you use - you can try anything on there and it can't hurt.

I have HEI on the 'cuda and I just got it to fit on my '72 Mustang - that's how I know the prices 

[shadango]

Quick question on the mopar chrome box I got....it has only 4 pins (my autozone and napa ecus have 5)....not an issue from what I can tell, correct?  I also use the 4 pin ballast, and from what I understand the circuit with the brown wires is all that is needed.....right?   

[BIGSHCLUNK]

I've been running the Mopar Orange box from day one. Seems to be just fine. Of course I'm just cruisin'. The box says USA.... but in the corner ... made in mexico.....