Disaster *DIVERTED!*

[Chryco Psycho]

clean out the antifreeze in the oil ,install the inatke & fire it up , I bet it is OK . do a compression test but \i doubt you have any damage

[72bluNblu]

I'd probably pull the rockers and the pushrods for #8 to make sure they're still straight and inspect the rocker cup for cracks. The 318 in my dart bent valves before I got it and also had a hairline crack in one of the rockers in the push rod cup.

If the pushrods and rockers check out ok I'd probably just put the intake back on and see what happens. Although you could also check to make sure the ends of the valves are all at the same height. Since you have a non-adjustable rocker set up the ends of the valves should all be very close to the same height, if the ones on #8 aren't then you might have a problem. You could check that with a good straight edge and a feeler gauge without taking the head off.

The cam may also be a Lunati. Apparently Lunati uses the same cores that Mopar does, and they're all painted like that. At the very least, that's the same paint job as on the Lunati 60404 in my 340.

[shadango]

Some shots of the valve in question.....pretty tough to get one photo that shows the whole area due to how the flash lights up the area...











I do seem to have some buildup on my valves......

[72cudamaan]

Yeah, put it back together and try it. If it doesn't run right ,the damage has already been done anyway.  I'll bet it's all good.   Hey ,you guys want to start a pool on this.

[wally426ci]

Shadango, your wife is a saint!! I couldn't imagine what mine would say if I had all of these issues. You are working through it and I think you will be just fine. Alot of us have done some foolish mistakes but just haven't told anyone....  So don't feel bad, I have been there.

I had just put my brand new 408 stroker together, for the life of me it wouldnt start. Crank, crank, crank, maybe its 180* out. Nope.

Pull the distributor and the gear wasn't turning.  So guess who put the wrong long bolts into the 2 lowest water pump holes and snapped the upper gear in half.  I could have died when I pulled it apart and saw that. Anyway, its still running 4 years later.  I still can't wait to pull it apart one day when I change heads and make SURE nothing else is wrong.

You'll be cruising in no time, can't wait to meet you @ Carlisle assuming you're coming. 

[Bullitt-]

&&&&&&&&& SOOOOOOOOOO I guess the GOOD NEWS is that your wiring harness came back & worked.   

[shadango]

You'll be cruising in no time, can't wait to meet you @ Carlisle assuming you're coming. 

I hope so.   I do plan on coming to Carlisle.....whether the car will be there or not I guess is the big question right now....LOL

[solarguy]

If you've been having hot start issues, use this opportunuity with the intake off to block the exhaust heat crossover

[shadango]

&&&&&&&&& SOOOOOOOOOO I guess the GOOD NEWS is that your wiring harness came back & worked.   

The harness works as far as the engine starts.....   The issue I have been chasing is the random shut down......well, that I guess is on the backburner for now.

You guys have all been great help with greatfeedback.   

I am just trying to sort out what I want to do I guess....lots of crap rolling around in my head right now, all the while I am kicking my own @ss for getting myself into this.

I suppose pulling the heads would allow me to clean up the piston tops...While I wouldnt mind cleaning the carbon off, etc not sure I absolutely need to......I havent had any pinging issues...I run 87 octane.....,though I do have some run-on .....I have taken to dropping the car into gear before shutting her down.....

Can you see the carbon buildup on the one valve in the pictures of the head?  Seems like I have a lot of deposits but not sure how much would be considered normal...if I pull the heads "just to look" might as well also have them redone....

I am kind of at a crossroads.   Pull one head, might as well pull both....its the only way to be sure the piston top wasn't damaged I suppose....actually look at the piston.  But it wont indicate at all at whether I messed up a rod or crank bearing......would have to drop the pan or just run it for that.

I can do a compression check, that should pretty much rule on whether there is damage or not, right?  The only other way would be a bore-scope...which I dont have.

I am thinking maybe I can fit my shop vac with a piece of heater hose and use it to stick in the head and try to vac out any remaining stuff.....maybe do the same thru the plug hole?

I dont know if the 318 is a "interference engine" or not, and how much space is in the combustion chamber at the height of the stroke...

A buddy of mine related a story where he bought an old Honda ATC 185 trike that the owner couldnt get to run.  He pulled the intake and head off and found a red rag in it....put it back together and it ran fine.  He reasoned that the trike engine is a lot less robust that the 318 would be.....

Some of you say just slap the manifold back on and try it...one side of me wants to do that.

I have gaskets for that already...would just have to buy some fresh oil for the engine....if I pull the heads I will have to get some new head gaskets obviously.

A question or two still are in my mind ---

1- will that remnant of rag on the valve just "burn off" / If I put some gas in there as was suggested, can that cause a fire in the head (above the combustion chamber) ? If there is still a piece n the chamber or between the valve and seat will it just burn away and get spity out the exhaust side? Or could that in itself cause more trouble?

2- can I do a compression check the way it sits?  IE tape off the coil wires and such and just spin the engine with the starter with no intake on it, safely?   I would think I would also hear any major (problem) noises while cranking too, right?  Should I pull the water pump belt off so I dont spit coolant into the lifter valley? Should I change the oil BEFORE I do the compression check sice there is probably "some" coolant in the oil now from pulling the intake (and the comp check will circulate that) or just wait til after I am done reassembling?

3- if I pull the rocker assembly so as to pull the rods to check, which looks easy enough, anything to watch out for?  Or will it just lift off, and then I can just pull out the rod?   The rods spin in the engine straight from what I can tell. What is the correct torque settin gfor the rocker arm assembly bolts?

4- I have a set of edelbrock gaskets for the intake.  They have rubbery sealing rings around each intake port.....Do I need to dress the gaksets with anything before installing?   Edelbrocks site says to use "Gasgacinch" (their stuff) onm the intake mounting surface of the head, a thing film of RTV aroundeach water port on the intake mainfold side only, and a 1/4 bead of RTV at the ends in place of end gaskets....do you guys agree?  My mainfold had foam-looking end seals....


Sorry this post is sort of all over the place....its where my head is right now.   



 

[shadango]

If you've been having hot start issues, use this opportunuity with the intake off to block the exhaust heat crossover

Chryco had suggested that as well....

What am I looking for?  Does the Edelbrock Performer HAVE a heat crossover?  Any side effects to doing that?

[Chryco Psycho]

just cut a piece of the old intake gasket to cover the center crossover hole in the head , there is no downside to blocking the port off.
Yes you can do a compression test as it sits , the other missing pieces oif rag are probably chopped to bits & will burn off & pass through easily  .
You can pull the rockers & just roll the pushrod from the cylinder the rag was in  to be sure it is straight , the rockers torque to 18 lbs if I remember right , the torque is low to prevent ovaling the rocker shaft

[shadango]

just cut a piece of the old intake gasket to cover the center crossover hole in the head , there is no downside to blocking the port off.
Yes you can do a compression test as it sits , the other missing pieces oif rag are probably chopped to bits & will burn off & pass through easily  .
You can pull the rockers & just roll the pushrod from the cylinder the rag was in  to be sure it is straight , the rockers torque to 18 lbs if I remember right , the torque is low to prevent ovaling the rocker shaft

Thanks Chryco.  Sorry for my ignorance, but when you say "crossover hole", do you mean what I thought were water passages on each side 9shown in the photo below)



The Edelbrock gasket I have has that hole cutout......so how do I add a piece to make it seal without double-layering that area which will cause sealing issues?

And what about the oil change? When I crank it over to do the compression check, will I be pumping out more coolant? Change the oil before or after I crank?

[moper]

The noises were probably that cylinder firing once or twice before the rage got to it, or compresion geting popped back up the intake. If you got it all (or 90% out), Take a straight edge and go along the top of the valve stems witht he rockers removed on that side. If the cylinder in question doesnt have shorter stems... Put the intake on and try to run it. I think you're probably ok, but it is posible to bend a rod if enough got caught in the right spot. But I'dtry it before you panic and go nuts on it. I also wouldnt change ANYTHING more. Get it together at least to the point where it was. THEN make some changes, one at a time.

[Chryco Psycho]

the rag may also have been on fire & ignited the fuel in the intake when the valve re-opened

[shadango]

The noises were probably that cylinder firing once or twice before the rage got to it, or compresion geting popped back up the intake. If you got it all (or 90% out), Take a straight edge and go along the top of the valve stems witht he rockers removed on that side. If the cylinder in question doesnt have shorter stems... Put the intake on and try to run it. I think you're probably ok, but it is posible to bend a rod if enough got caught in the right spot. But I'dtry it before you panic and go nuts on it. I also wouldnt change ANYTHING more. Get it together at least to the point where it was. THEN make some changes, one at a time.

It was definately a clatter.....not once or twice but regular...just hoping tha twas the effect caused by the rag binding the valve open and the resulting loose rod, lifter and rocker.

The stems, as it sits now, all look to be the same...no noticeable difference but will check again.

I examined the rods while installed and was abel to turn them, and they seem to be not bent, at least that part that is visible in the valley.

I agree for sure with your last sentiment......I dont want to go changing more than I have to at this point.