It's happening! UPDATED it got hotter, oh boy

[heminut]

So you are saying its ok for everybody in this country to walk around with "papers" to show that you belong here and if you can't produce them you are hauled away and treated like a criminal until you prove otherwise?  Subjected to the embarrassment and ridicule of everyone?  Cuz, thats what your statement sounds like its saying?

So you are saying that this law says you have to have "papers" showing you're a citizen or you will be "hauled away and treated like a criminal"? Have you actually read a copy of the law? I doubt it, as it states that an officer has to have 'reasonable cause' to believe that a person may not be here legally and can then investigate whether that person is a legal resident. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that for the last 200 years or so law enforcement in this country (unlike Mexico) has been required to have reasonable cause to even detain someone for investigation, let alone 'haul them away and treat them like a criminal'!

Heck, the Border Patrol Agents at the checkpoint on I-10 35 miles from where I live (which I don't condone at all) don't even ask for citizenship papers without reasonable cause, and their main function is to apprehend illegals. My wife, who I previously stated is Cuban, drove through that checkpoint every workday for 3 years and never had to produce citizenship papers.

A lot of people are screaming bloody murder about this and the law hasn't even gone into effect yet. A lot who are making the most noise probably haven't even read the law yet and are going solely on what they read in the news and what others are saying. That's another big problem in this country, people have forgotten how to think and research things for themselves and are content to go by what 'they' say!

[Scatterbrain]

All 17 pages.  Just finished reading.  I'd only read excerpts up til now.

Its the reasonable suspicion and reasonable attempt to provide proof that is causing the stink.  The past 200 years we have had the courts define what is reasonable, if this law survives I suspect there will be more to define that.

I've been pulled over for going 2 miles over the speed limit.  Was I speeding, sure 72 mph is greater than 70 mph, can't argue that.  The cruise control was set at 70.  But really what was the reason they pulled me over?  I was a young Hispanic man in a brand new Red Corvette.  I was 28 at the time.  Was it racism?  The DPS trooper was hispanic.  What reason was there to pull me over?  It was to gauge my reactions, was I hiding something?  was I transporting something?  He asked me where I worked, where I was going, how long I had the car.  He was fishing.  Was there reasonable suspicion to pull me over?  It is subjective.  BTW, after he spoke with me for awhile he relaxed and was actually pretty cool.  He had a smoke while I stretched my legs for awhile.  He had a 72 Camaro he had in his garage that he was fixing up.  I didn't even get a written warning for the 72mph.  I asked a friend who is an officer and he said its called fishing... Police have an image of what is suspicious and act on it. 

[geminiviper]

Fishing is a normal practice by law enforcement when there is a degree of crimes being committed in a given area at a given frequency.  When you break it down it's not racial profiling, but when you look at a statistic like 72% of all vehicles stolen in the greater Phoenix AZ area are stolen by a hispanic male between 16 and 25.  So naturally any cop is going to be looking at any vehicle that has a stealable value and then look at the driver to see if he fits the statistic for his area.  He can't pull someone over solely for that so when he looks at ANY traffic violation he can see then he has a reason to make contact with the driver.  So in your case of 72 in a 70, that 2 mile excess is what gave him a reason to pull you over.  Then because you may have matched a statistic of criminal activity he asked more questions and dug deeper.  When he no longer had any reason to believe you had done anything more than the traffic violation that allowed him to pull you over, he let you go.

That statistic is completely made up for the purpose of illustrating my point.

[heminut]

In my opinion there's a lot of stink over nothing. We need to wait and see how the law plays out, Sheriff Arpaio has been enforcing a similar ordinance in the Phoenix area for 3 years now and it hasn't turned out anything like what all the doomsayers are claiming this law will be. Thing is though, if the Feds would actively enforce the immigrations laws already on the books then the states wouldn't have to resort to these measures. I hate to say it, because my son is a Border Patrol Agent in this area and my son-in-law is a BP Agent in Arizona, but the Border Patrol seems to be more focused on taking down dope loads than enforcing immigration. Why do they need a drug sniffing dog at an immigration checkpoint on Interstate 10, more than 30 miles from the border?

[JS27N0B]

All sounds good to me!
I still get nervous if I have to get on a plane with someone of arabic decent, it all boils down to law of averages.

[whitesatinmopar]

  Seems like a whole lot of people are bashing this state law (yet to be in effect) who are hundreds of miles from any Arizonia border and do not know or understand what is going on there. Bottom line from what I know or understand (which may be very little) is that the state leaders have acted in an attempt to move to a solution. Also as has been said here, doing what the Federal Government has been ignoreing, it makes little difference who allowed this "Criminal migration" to start or continue. but the burden of it's consequences fall upon the citizens of Arizonia.  Perhaps a poor example,: ie: my town police ignore the drug and crime activity in my part of town, obviously because of that it grows in number and intensity...............and now I'm not supposed to have the right to protect my property and family because the proper authorities have failed to act upon the problem ? If your answer is yes, your insane. Criminals are just that, and when their so called rights supercede the real legitimate rights of the innocent public it's become a lawless society. Why would anyone wish to protect anyone breaking the law ??  That is nonesense stupidity. 

[torredcuda]

We all should hope the American Indians who we took this country from(and killing many of them doing it)don`t get organized and throw all of us "Americans" out-just something to think about.

[shadango]

Dunno where you live, but I've been stopped lots of times without insurance and without a drivers license and all they say is stop by Station with it or fax us a copy of it and I'm on my way.  With this they will hold you until you cough up a birth certificate.  A driver's license is a privilege not a right.  Is living in this country now a right?

Living in this country is a right for naturally born folks....a priveledge for thos who want to live here but were born elsewhere.

So you are saying its ok for everybody in this country to walk around with "papers" to show that you belong here and if you can't produce them you are hauled away and treated like a criminal until you prove otherwise?  Subjected to the embarrassment and ridicule of everyone?  Cuz, thats what your statement sounds like its saying?

No, what I am saying is that if there is a reason to believe that you don't belong, you need to produce the necessary documentation that you do.

If you are you are clearly a foreigner, speak little or no english, can produce no legit official ID with a photo and US address, then YES you need to produce the documentation.

People need to stop attacking our laws and law officers..the problem isnt with them, the problem is with the people who are entering our country illegaly.

But there has to be a better solution than this.  Their was a representative from Texas that said she wanted to introduce a bill like that here.  Her argument was "If I'm speeding on 290 and get pulled over, I don't get offended thinking he stopped me for being a woman."  Well, that analogy isn't correct.  It would be better to say that after I was pulled over I had to prove I was a woman.  Lets see how offended she'd get having to flash her boobies...

Thats a stretch and you are taking her statement way further than it needs to go. You are automatically assuming the officer is the bad guy, making her prove she is a woman.  What bearing would her being a woman have on the situation? The fact that she is a woman or not has nothing to do with being oulled over and the reason she was pulled over is that she was doing 290 mph.  THAT was her point.  Problem is, some folks then want to play the race and/or gender card.

I fully support what some call "racial profiling".  Its a BS term thought up by liberals looking to stir the pot.

I said the same thing back when "racial profiling" was brought up around airport security.  AT the time, there were credible threats involving foreigners who looked a certain way.   And security folks looked at folks who fit that description a little more than they looked at 90 year old women or babies.

I think its ridiculous and and a national embarrassment that the right wingers have made it so you cant blink at someone in what they feel is the wrong way without their being a racial .

Isn't it just common sense to look for a person fitting a certain description when that is the person who did a crime?

If we are trying to stop illegal mexican immigration from across the border, should we be looking for people who appear to be of asian decent? 

[shadango]

I've been pulled over for going 2 miles over the speed limit.  Was I speeding, sure 72 mph is greater than 70 mph, can't argue that.  The cruise control was set at 70.  But really what was the reason they pulled me over?  I was a young Hispanic man in a brand new Red Corvette.  I was 28 at the time.  Was it racism?  The DPS trooper was hispanic.  What reason was there to pull me over?  It was to gauge my reactions, was I hiding something?  was I transporting something?  He asked me where I worked, where I was going, how long I had the car.  He was fishing.  Was there reasonable suspicion to pull me over?  It is subjective.

I got stopped on the turnpike for doing 5 over...I am a white middle guy and was driving a minivan...while others sped past me. 

Wait, I am a litle overweight.  And I have a mustache.

THATS IT!  The cop was after fat white guys with facial hair!! 

It was a hispanic cop who stopped you and you are questioning if it was racially motivated?   

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, in whatever neighborhood you were in, a young man (hispanic origin aside) in a "brand new corvette" fit the profile of something that warranted being looked into? 

How many 28 year olds drive brand new corvettes?

THAT is why you got stopped.

Dont like it? Drive a Hyundai.   

i know that simply by driving my sublime barracuda the cops are looking at me and watching closely for me to screw up...so I dont.

I think what you call "fishing" is simply the only way cops can do ANY pre-emtpive crime solving.  If criminals know that cops are neutered by "anti-racial-profiling"  laws, what is to stop them?

The cops put 2 and 2 together and act on it.  Sometimes they are right sometimes wrong.

If not for cops looking out for suspsicious activity, the thugs would rule the streets more than they do.

I am SOOOOOO sick and tired of hearing "minorities" (which ARENT, anymore, from what I read) using the race card.  We cater EVERYTHING to special groups now...."diversity" and all that b u l l s h i t.

We are all different.  GET OVER IT!

Its wrong to treat someone badly due to what they look like , race, fat, thin, handicapped, etc.

but we are ALL in this together...STOP ASKING FOR SPECIAL ATTENTION if you just want to be treated "like anyone else". 

ANY ONE of us can be stopped for ANYTHING.  Being paranoid about it being due to your race is something that was drilled into you by your family and community.  Not saying it doesnt happen cause it does.  But its niot the rule like many folks try to say.

If we fit a certain profile (NOT a bad word unless it is abused), so be it.

[Rare_T_A]

We all should hope the American Indians who we took this country from(and killing many of them doing it)don`t get organized and throw all of us "Americans" out-just something to think about.

Sorry but I live in a part of the country where we have a lot of NA and reservations. They don't want to revolt because it would mean they would have to work, get a job and pay their own way. They would have to give up that monthly government check. Besides you would be surprised how much they make off the Casino's. Around here the tribes have so much money the are buying up so much land. When ever something is put on the market they can out bid anyone and do. Don't get me wrong as there are a lot of NA who take pride in them selfs and do get educated and make something of them selfs. Just not many.

[leithal]

I am half Mexican and have a dark complection.  I am American and I love my country.  After reading the entire bill my family and I will spend our next vacation in Arizona as a display of support. 

[ChallengerHK]

I am glad to read this, and thanks for posting it. For too many years misguided politicians have been convincing us (or at least a lot of us) that up is down and left is right. One of the reasons that I'm glad to see this law is that it sends an important message, that those tactics are starting to fail. If someone that these politicians say will suffer from the law is willing to stand up for it, this reinforces that same message.

[az-nick]

I live in AZ within 30 miles of the border or war zone and about 25 miles from Tucson, I guess I live in the middle. As some say around here that it is getting bad, cars are getting stolen quite often and you don't know what is going to happen next. My buddy has come home from work and they have taken over his patio behind his house, they will be sitting or sleeping in his chairs, the water hose is running and laying on the ground, food scraps tossed around and someone even took a crap behind his garage. It is a mess, you do not know what you will find, I use to walk with my wife in the evening and I am reluctant to do so but she likes to so I carry a weapon with me when we go out, I will not walk late at night around here because there is wildlife thoroughfare's behind my home that is all natural desert wildlife and someone can easily walk for miles in these walkways without being noticed. I have friends that are in the Border Patrol that say that they are out numbered and out gunned if anything breaks out. Because of the liberal news media you do not hear about the gun fights and fury of automatic shots being fired at the border patrol agents but it does happen.
I just heard last night that the locals in Tucson that have family's and friends that are illegals are offering bus rides or other transportation to get them out of the area and to a sanctuary state like California before the bill goes hot.

[js27]

South Carolina also has a bill that is going to go up for a vote.
JS27

[priderocks]

Nations all over the world enforce their borders. We enforce our borders only in a token manner precisely because there is not the political will to do so. Democrats eye the huge potential voting block of legalized immigrants. Republicans are water boys for business and the US Chamber of Commerce who want open borders for cheap labor. Politicians of any stripe will sell you, the middle class,  down the river to stay in office.