Author Topic: Silicone Brake Fluid?  (Read 2602 times)

Offline AMXguy

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Silicone Brake Fluid?
« on: July 01, 2010 - 09:47:09 PM »
Is DOT 5 silicone fluid harmful to paint?  if it isn't it seems like a no brainer if you have a nice engine bay I don't care what it cost.

 Also where is the best place to get it my parts house says they can't?
1970 R/T SE Challenger
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Offline Killer_Mopar

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010 - 10:01:09 PM »
DOT5 will not harm paint. There are some drawbacks to it, such as moisture absorption and compatibility with ABS brakes. If you stay on top of your car - I recommend it 100% just make sure to get all of the DOT3/4 out of the system because they are not compatible with each other.
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2010 - 02:32:45 AM »
I wouldn't go as far as to say it can't harm paint. But then again DOT 3/4 fluid is pretty much 100% guaranteed to damage paint, so its much safer. It also has a higher boiling point than regular old DOT 3/4.

Silicone fluid is actually hydrophobic. It will not absorb water. But that doesn't mean water can't get into your system, only that if it does it will stay separated from the silicone fluid. This is actually worse than being absorbed, since pockets of water can form and cause corrosion.

This is a big problem if you're upgrading to silicone fluid. You have to flush your brake system very well, any remaining old DOT 3/4 will cause pockets of contamination that can cause corrosion (ie, a pocket of DOT 3/water sitting in your caliper). And since the rubber parts in the braking system absorb the old fluid over time, its best to use silicone fluid in a new system (one that has never seen DOT3/4). Also, not all old rubber parts are compatible with the silicone fluid. Typically all the new rubber parts are, but its not 100%.

Also, while it doesn't eat paint, it can contaminate your work space. If you're painting a car, it will cause "fish eyes" in the paint if present. And it only takes a tiny amount to contaminate an entire work area, so keep it away from anywhere you might shoot paint.

Finally, a last fun fact. If it somehow gets pulled past a leaky vacuum booster and into the intake system, it turns into silica when burned. Silica=sand. So, don't let it get burned in your engine. DOT 3/4 doesn't do this.


Offline missioncritical

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2010 - 09:26:54 AM »
Everything I have ever read on using this stuff is that it should never have been invented or used.  Just don't do it, on a car anyway.  Maybe a motorcycle.

My .02

-Kevin

Offline Supercuda

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2010 - 09:37:54 AM »
There are as many reasons to use it as not to. It is excellent brake fluid, but is incompatible with earlier fluids (DOT 3 and 4), and will ruin a painting project quickly if it gets onto your bodywork. It is nicer to finished paint than other fluids, and has a high boiling point. It will not "capture" water, so is not a good idea for retrofitting without completely flushing the system. Following the basic rules for using this fluid in your brake system will make you happy with it; dropping the ball even once will make you miserable.

Offline burdar

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2010 - 10:32:43 AM »
The only bad thing I've ever heard is that it can give a slightly spongy pedal.  The main reason for this is that if the bottle of fluid is shaken(accidentaly dropped, or moved around a lot during shipping) it will trap a lot of air within the fluid.  If you shake a bottle of it you will see that it gets really bubbly.

The fix is to set the fluid out in the sun for awhile so the bubbles have a chance to escape.  This is just what I've read...I havn't tried using it yet...but I plan to.  My brake system will be all new so there will be no chance of contamination.  I'm not going to chance ruining my paint job by using the old stuff.

Offline Killer_Mopar

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2010 - 11:59:39 AM »
I dont have any problems with pedal feel, but then again I have manual brakes so the pedal is always hard. There are advantages and disadvantages to each type, but since I value my paint and maintain my car I went with DOT5....I also have had DOT3/4 kill paint in the past - so it made for a no brainer for me.

BTW, Autozone sells DOT5 and its ~7 bucks for 1/3 QT - so figure on buying 3 of them for a fresh system.
70 Challenger R/T SE - The never-ending project........

Offline heminut

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2010 - 12:39:21 PM »
Everything I have ever read on using this stuff is that it should never have been invented or used.  Just don't do it, on a car anyway.  Maybe a motorcycle.

My .02

-Kevin

Harley-Davidson used Dot 5 in their motorcycles for a few years but switched back to the Dot 3/4 fluids in spite of the danger of damage to paint. I haven't heard why they switched back but it was most likely for performance reasons, as they don't cheap out on their fluids on the bikes so it would not be for reasons of economy.
1970 5.7 Hemi Cuda

Offline 72cudamaan

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2010 - 10:14:51 PM »
Harley-Davidson used Dot 5 in their motorcycles for a few years but switched back to the Dot 3/4 fluids in spite of the danger of damage to paint. I haven't heard why they switched back but it was most likely for performance reasons, as they don't cheap out on their fluids on the bikes so it would not be for reasons of economy.
I doubt for performance reasons as Dot 5 has a higher boiling point, which in turn reduces brake fade. Thats why race cars use it. I have heard that it is harsher on the rubber lines though. :2cents:
If I cant fix it, it's broke
 
Andy  (phukker whither)

Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2010 - 04:40:38 AM »
The Dot 3 & 4 does absorb moisture but remains useable, but the boiling temp goes down, but you still get a firm pedal. The Dot 5 silicone has a slightly less firm feel on the pedal due to the components in the formula compressing more than the Dot 3 & 4. Also the silicone can attack and swell some of the rubber components in the system. All brake fluid that is shaken will aerate and needs to let stand for about 24 hrs before using.  :bigsmile:
Dave

Offline torredcuda

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2010 - 10:12:58 AM »
Everything I have ever read on using this stuff is that it should never have been invented or used.  Just don't do it, on a car anyway.  Maybe a motorcycle.

My .02

-Kevin

What exactly have you "read" and why would it be OK for a motorcylce but not a car-they have the same basic type hydrolic systems?

I put in DOT 5 when I redid my car 15 years ago and I`ve never had any problems except it seems tougher to bleed.Just take some extra time and care to bleed all the air out of the sysytem and your good.I had factory power disc brakes but switched to a manual master years ago and both are fine and I don`t baby my car-I drive it hard.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi

Offline missioncritical

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2010 - 11:47:21 PM »
Sorry that I ignited so much feedback on my comments on Dot 5.  I researched it a lot a year ago when I was putting a car together.  I spoke to some car show people and a few car enthusiasts that I know and after reading some (I get a lot of car magazines like everyone else probably), and doing a lot of searching on my favorite car forum, came away with the conclusion that it was not for me.  Not that it would not be an option for someone else in a different circumstance.

Doing a Google search on 'Dot 5 Brake Fluid' you get a lot of links to motorcycle sites and when I was doing my research it seemed to be that motorcycle users were interested in it.  But I don't know anything about motorcycles so I hearby recall my comment on using it in motorcycles.  After all, everything has to stop...

For example, a quick search on this topic shows this page, which is fairly informative (cycle-related though):

http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/cows-brakefluid.html

I remember reading about it all of the time in the various car magazines I get, and a quick search showed these articles:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/hotnews/1008chp_august_2010_chevy_high_performance_q_and_a/tpi_injection.html

and:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/chassis/brakes/0509sc_fluid/index.html

These were the ones that I probably remembered, but I'm sure there are others.  And I suppose one could also find article that say good things about Dot 5.

And yes, my main source of info is Chevy related.  I'm a car guy, so I like Camaros, Mustangs, and Cuda/Challengers.  I can't decide which I like better so I own them all !.  Its all good.

But brake systems apply to any type of car, so even if you have a Cuda, Mustang, or something else there is a lot of information on Camaros.net, for example:

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=129607&highlight=dot

And like I said, my  :2cents: 

-Kevin

Offline torredcuda

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Re: Silicone Brake Fluid?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2010 - 09:12:40 AM »
No problem,thanks for the info.I have also read numerous articles on DOT 5 and for my street driver I think it is fine,maybe not as good for a race track where you might build up too much heat and lose pedal feel.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi