anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??

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    Author Topic: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??  (Read 6604 times)

    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #30 on: July 06, 2010 - 04:24:29 PM »
    okay my honey found my cam card at home.....567 exhaust, 558 intake.....intake 242.....ex 249   @0.50
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    Offline moper

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #31 on: July 06, 2010 - 09:53:46 PM »
    It's up to you how you feel about it. I will tell you you need cylinder pressures no greater than 175psi with open chamber iron heads to run well on pump hi test. If the cam is 242°@.050 it should be bleeding enough off to keep the detonation at bay. If it's pinging maybe it's your tune? That's the thing... You need to know what isnt working and it may not be anything the builder did or didn't do. And that's where dyno tuning can help. You didn't tune, you went for numbers. Which is why I say your feelings are up to you but a dyno at a show is making the tool a toy. Like a fire truck in a parade. You get all the pomp and circumstance but it's not doing what it's supposed to... it's simply sitting there looking pretty. Don't beat yourself up over it until you book some time and see what the tool can do to help.
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #32 on: July 07, 2010 - 09:50:55 AM »
    well i can tell by ur advice theres alot more goin on here than i know about,....i did the best i could when putting this together, maybe i dont have the best resources around me then...i had a mopar drag racer that runs in the 9's wiht a stroked 500 help me set up the valvetrain, adj ect....i talked to don at fbo and sent my dizzy to him and had him go over it, along with my setup.....then i had a tech that does alot of tuning for racers come over and set the carb up and timing..(according to dons suggestions)  I dont know what else i could of done i guess....Im sure between the heat, the timing, maybe the airbleeds, jetting ect.....theres more....but at what price?   Will it still start good,, idle?....and i guess my biggest question...if i bump the timing...will that increase the dentonation prob?...or solve it....these are things i just dont know about ...as far as cyl pressure, i certainly dont know that...maybe my engine will?.......can anyone of you suggest a tuner in my area that i could take the car too that knows his ****?  i live in eastern pa......
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    Offline The Cuda Guy

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #33 on: July 07, 2010 - 12:52:22 PM »
    Quote from: challydust on July 07, 2010 - 09:50:55 AM
    well i can tell by ur advice theres alot more goin on here than i know about,....i did the best i could when putting this together, maybe i dont have the best resources around me then...i had a mopar drag racer that runs in the 9's wiht a stroked 500 help me set up the valvetrain, adj ect....i talked to don at fbo and sent my dizzy to him and had him go over it, along with my setup.....then i had a tech that does alot of tuning for racers come over and set the carb up and timing..(according to dons suggestions)  I dont know what else i could of done i guess....Im sure between the heat, the timing, maybe the airbleeds, jetting ect.....theres more....but at what price?   Will it still start good,, idle?....and i guess my biggest question...if i bump the timing...will that increase the dentonation prob?...or solve it....these are things i just dont know about ...as far as cyl pressure, i certainly dont know that...maybe my engine will?.......can anyone of you suggest a tuner in my area that i could take the car too that knows his ****?  i live in eastern pa......

    I guess my question to you is this:  What is your goal?  Is 500hp / 500tq the goal?  If thats the case then it sounds like your close to it.  I wouldnt get so bent over about all this stuff.  You are pushing close to 500 hp with a 451 cid engine, that is pretty respectable for a street driven 451 cid engine.  But if you have to have 500 hp, I understand at the end of the day if you dont want to settle.  You have a goal.  It still sounds to me like you have a breathing issue, look at porting matcing your intake and bumping up to a 950 carb, see where that gets you.

    Disclaimer, I have very little mechincal knowledge, I just read a lot about this stuff, please do not take this advice as other than opinion, guys like wagesofsin, sledgehammer, chryco, moper and moparal are really the guys who can set you stright on this stuff.

    Don
    « Last Edit: July 07, 2010 - 01:02:21 PM by The Cuda Guy »
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #34 on: July 07, 2010 - 05:10:30 PM »
    Well talked to bob george today...what a nice gentleman.....seems very smart on these 451 builds...says they do a ton of them.....said theres more in that car...IF the dyno numbers are correct.....only two hours away ,so im gonna load her up and take er down there and let him fine tune it ...said they have several customers cars that are 3300 3400  running in the 10's.....so im sure he can tweak mine to its full potential...thanks for the leads everyone.... :clapping:
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    Offline The Cuda Guy

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #35 on: July 08, 2010 - 06:43:45 AM »
     :2thumbs:
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #36 on: July 08, 2010 - 11:10:30 AM »
    any of u more knowledgable guys on here can explain to me how i could possibly run more timing than 34 with steel heads...and NOT get more detonation.....im running about a gallon of race fuel now with 5 gal of premium....have too....so how if I or someone increases timing could i get away with it?  or wouldl i just have to run more or straight race fuel.......i know some of you mentioned, cam specs or cyl volume...anyone make this more clear to me....thank you
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    Offline mopar12372

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #37 on: July 08, 2010 - 03:36:48 PM »
     36 deg total is what your looking for but the dyno will definately telt you know what the engine likes . please factor ambient temp / barometric pressure / altitude / . remember you will make less hp in heat again it also depends on the above too. good luck to you it does sound like theres more hp in that combo . oyu might have to make some changes to the engine to get the hp you want but in return it will make the care a little less street worthy. good luck --->Bill
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #38 on: July 08, 2010 - 04:25:47 PM »
    yes im hoping for more for the combo and the money i put out.....yes the temp killed me that day for sure....it is very street friendly as of now...starts perfect...gas mileage is relatively good for a near 500 hp motor....dont think i want to put any  more big money in it...just doenst seem worth it for the gain..unless i go all out and change up alot of things.....and im not going too..dont want too and cant afford it either.....so im going take it too bob george and let him tune it precisely....get the most i can get.....that dyno gave me a idea...so ill go from there, im close....i think that combo should make and easy 400 plus to the wheels.....
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    Offline moper

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #39 on: July 08, 2010 - 05:27:32 PM »
    I've exchanged some notes with Bob G. He is, in all senses of the word, a gentleman racer. I think he will be a big step towards getting things worked out.

    On the detonation... Do you have a compression gage handy? Block the carb wide open, pull all the plugs, and take some compression readings and post them. Also if you haven't... Post you ignition setup. I'm curious what Don set you up with. lastly, the carb setup... What does it idle at (speed wise?)? What is the jetting and squirtor size?
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #40 on: July 08, 2010 - 06:05:02 PM »
    okay....ill have to get some of the info for you...i dont recall all of it....ignition wize it was a full mechanical advance, i sent it to him and he sent me a card back to follow...initial...total...ect....i run a msd 6al....with a msd coil.....is there more you need?.....i can do a compression check and get back to ya....as far as carb..have specs at home , im believeing 76 up front and 83 or 84's rear....power valve of i think 4.5....ill have to get all this for you..so im accurate....car idles at 900 now
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #41 on: July 09, 2010 - 12:19:01 PM »
    wellthanks for the encourgement sledgehammer.....i think the tune is far is I wanna go financially right now.....myabe bob can make me feel a lil better with his tune.....then i can redyno at some point.....my car is very streetable now for sure...other than the race gas.....i guess i can put a lot of 6 buck a gallon fuel in it for what i ll spend in alum heads or even more depending how much i want to gain....shoulda listended to myself back when i built it....and just did the alum heads and i wouldnt be in this perdicament
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #42 on: July 09, 2010 - 02:12:03 PM »
    3.5 powervalve....74 up front  82 in the rear   airbleeds are 75 front 70 rear.....i had to change these as per quickfuels advice....
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    Offline challydust

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #43 on: July 09, 2010 - 03:36:25 PM »
    Quote from: moper on July 08, 2010 - 05:27:32 PM
    I've exchanged some notes with Bob G. He is, in all senses of the word, a gentleman racer. I think he will be a big step towards getting things worked out.

    On the detonation... Do you have a compression gage handy? Block the carb wide open, pull all the plugs, and take some compression readings and post them. Also if you haven't... Post you ignition setup. I'm curious what Don set you up with. lastly, the carb setup... What does it idle at (speed wise?)? What is the jetting and squirtor size?
    Don has it at 34 total timing   initial 21   at 2970 rpm.......this isnt a vacuum advance dizzy by the way....
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: anyone wanna guess at my dyno numbers??
    « Reply #44 on: July 09, 2010 - 08:48:32 PM »
    Quote from: challydust on July 09, 2010 - 03:36:25 PM
    Don has it at 34 total timing   initial 21   at 2970 rpm.......this isnt a vacuum advance dizzy by the way....

    Interesting. That's a good timing figure for a modern aluminum small chamber head with an optimum spark plug location, like a Commando SB head. Back when I used to run Iron headed big blocks I found they ran best with over 40 degrees lead. I think 42* is what I ended up with on the first 383 I ran that did high 10's in the 70's that had ported 906 heads. I'm sure it had to do with the plugs being in the worst possible place in the stock type heads. The timing figure was arrived at by many runs down the track by a poor guy that had little to help go faster but constant experimentation. Of course I ran racing gas and it was a track only car.
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