340 vs 440

[hotrod98]

It's been over 100 here for the last three weeks and we've driven the Superbird with the 440 many times. The heat hasn't affected my 440's any more than it has my 340's. With the limited air coming in that small opening on the bird, I do have to run an auxiliary fan but I never had to on the Cudas. It's just a matter of personal preference. In the beginning, I was happy with the little motors but as time went on, I started preferring the big blocks.
As of now I have two small block cars and seven big block cars plus my big block dually. I also have a couple of cars that are apart that will get 440's when they go back together. My 09 Crewcab has a 5.7 but that doesn't count.
One of the small block cars is my wife's with the FI 5.9 360 and the other is my drag radial drag 71 Barracuda with an aluminum headed 360.  Those will stay that way.
As for beating my 440 71 Cuda with a small block..that won't happen. Motor  to motor there's just no way. Spray your 340 and you just might catch me.
I do have a 418ci 340 stroked with an MP crank and aluminum heads that I bought out of a guy's drag car that should be pretty quick. I don't see it beating my 440 either though. I bought it as a backup motor for my drag radial car.
At our drag strip there are no small block cars in Super Pro. There are several in the street radial class though.
Here's a couple of pics of my cars. The orange one is a factory N96 shaker hood Cuda that was originally a sassy grass green, 4-speed dual spoiler car. It runs mid 6's in the 1/8th. The other one is a factory sassy grass green 318 Barracuda with a mild 360. It runs mid to low 8's in the 1/8th.
Both are fun to drive.

[torredcuda]

I`m comparing mild, stock head engines cuz obviuosly there are a lot of cars that will smoke me-both big and small blocks.Sooner or later I`ll biuld a real stroker small block with some good heads so I can run with guys like cudadave!

[hotrod98]

The 440 in my cuda is an iron head motor that was built by Jim Lewis who builds many of the stocker motors for the NHRA guys.

[cudadave72]

Hotrod, I wasnt mounting a personal attack but rather reacting to comments made that small block were unimpressive to the general public. As far as making a small block run mid 6s??? Let me start off by telling you that my small block was assembled by a small unknown shop in back woods Kentucky close to ten years ago. It has a relatively small off the shelf Comp cam, hand ported Edelbrock heads (most everyone knows these heads are far from the best), a 750 Demon carb (again junk in the minds of many), conventional water pump, clutch style fan and to beat all an untouched 5/16 stock fuel system. When I last ran my car it was on a 95 degree day and very high humidity. That coupled with the fact I drove the car 2 hours to and 2 hours from the track. At that time it was on stone stock suspension. complete with 25 year old air shocks on a 275 Drag radial. Given better weather conditions and a full set of slicks and nothing else I feel my simple wore out small block would have busted in the high 6s. Keep in mind I also have a transbrake that has never been used as well. I have since acquired a full fuel system from Sledgehammer, full Calvert racing rear suspension and in a month my heads and intake are off to Ryan @ Shady-Dell who is known to be the best small block guru in the country. I will be transfering all my parts into a Resto block for some reassurance as well. Other things I'll be doing is a electric waterpump and fan amoung other changes. I think with all that I have your mid 6s covered in a 100% full weight factory looking ride. Keep in mind I tell you all this in good nature but thanks for the extra motivation!!

Oh btw if I opted for a fully ported Indy top end package you would be the one needing nitrous to catch me

[HemiOrange70]

Build a stroker, then you don't hand your A$$ to Cooter and his big block  , or any other car for that matter.

[loco340cuda]

Get a new siamesed 340 block with a 4.125 stroker crank and you can have 440 cubic inches in a 340 package. Then you could say you have both.

  

[hotrod98]

Hotrod, I wasnt mounting a personal attack but rather reacting to comments made that small block were unimpressive to the general public. As far as making a small block run mid 6s??? Let me start off by telling you that my small block was assembled by a small unknown shop in back woods Kentucky close to ten years ago. It has a relatively small off the shelf Comp cam, hand ported Edelbrock heads (most everyone knows these heads are far from the best), a 750 Demon carb (again junk in the minds of many), conventional water pump, clutch style fan and to beat all an untouched 5/16 stock fuel system. When I last ran my car it was on a 95 degree day and very high humidity. That coupled with the fact I drove the car 2 hours to and 2 hours from the track. At that time it was on stone stock suspension. complete with 25 year old air shocks on a 275 Drag radial. Given better weather conditions and a full set of slicks and nothing else I feel my simple wore out small block would have busted in the high 6s. Keep in mind I also have a transbrake that has never been used as well. I have since acquired a full fuel system from Sledgehammer, full Calvert racing rear suspension and in a month my heads and intake are off to Ryan @ Shady-Dell who is known to be the best small block guru in the country. I will be transfering all my parts into a Resto block for some reassurance as well. Other things I'll be doing is a electric waterpump and fan amoung other changes. I think with all that I have your mid 6s covered in a 100% full weight factory looking ride. Keep in mind I tell you all this in good nature but thanks for the extra motivation!!

Oh btw if I opted for a fully ported Indy top end package you would be the one needing nitrous to catch me

I didn't perceive it as a personal attack. I'm 54 years old and have raced everything from a funny car to a Super Comp dragster. Actually four Super Comp dragsters. I bought these two drag cars just the way they are. The 71 cuda 440 is stone stock with stock rear suspension and a stock 727. I leave on the foot brake and the slicks are over ten years old and they're a little hard to say the least.  I race the cars two or three times a year as time allows. They're just extra toys that we've bought to play with when we get a chance so it's kind of hard to get very serious with them. They sit in the shop about 360 days a year.
As for small blocks, I don't have anything against 340's. I've been collecting them for years. I still have every 340 that I've bought for the last 40 years.

Many, many years ago I used to race a small block until I drove a friend's big block car. OMG, that was one heck of a ride. Sold the small block to a friend of mine's girlfriend for her Duster and bought me a big block.

Just remember...when you have to start stroking and feeding the nitrous to a small block just to catch a 440, you're spending way more money and giving up a whole lot of dependability. Why not just start with a 440 to begin with. Built right, they'll live practically forever.

[Cooter]

Small Block guys always seem to be more like the 440 VS HEMI guys....I'd MUCH rather be outrun in a WEDGE BY a Hemi, than in a HEMI BY a WEDGE...Why? Cause of the same thing CudaDave said...Import Guys Spend Umteenth thousands of dollars just to be able to say those few words..."Wow! I just crushed your BB 500 with a 2.0 Liter Mits.".....Yeah, with about a $80K car, against a $10K car...It's the "Golden Rule" gentlemen....'Ye with the Gold, makes all the rules"....

Remember SB guys, 'Ye that starts with the most, ALWAYS ends up with the most..Even steven, Dollar for dollar, Weight for weight, Car for car, Driver for Driver, Good Air, Good Traction, Etc......You invest $20K in a Stroker Small Block, well then, the same has to be invested in the Stroker BB....No contest...Now, if your planning on some kinda Handicap for the SB, well, then all bets are off.....

[cudadave72]

My first post in this tread I stated that if your goal was all out power and straight line performance then dollar for dollar a big block was the way to go. If I owned an original big block powered car rest assured that is what it would have in it. Since my Cuda is an original H code 340 car, which was the highest trim level that year, it my intention to keep it a small block car. True a ten second small block is riding the edge of destroying the block and that is why I am going with a Resto block. This confirms two things you stated which is that a factory small block has its limitations and yes I am spending a lot more money to exceed those limits.

Its funny that you say your small block cars get no respect. I'm nearing 40 myself and when I was coming up the big thing was the 5.0 Mustangs and small block Camaros. Now I hate to admit it but I have owned and raced more Fox body mustangs then I'd like to admit. Back in my day if you stuffed a carbed 460 big block in your late model Stang you were frowned apon and viewed as taking the easy way out. To this day the top running Mustangs in the country use small block power. The same could be said for the LT1/LS powered GM cars and Modular powered Ford vehicles that are out there now. My last vehicle of interest was a Gen 2 (1999) Lightning  that weighed over 5000 lbs with me in it (4875 empty) that displaced only 330 cubic inches. With better rods, pistons, factory ported heads and an aftermarket blower (Kenne-Bell) ran consitant mid 10s at over 133 mph and that is slow by todays standards!!! That was my daily driver with A/C and other than a slightly choppy idle it looked and drove like a stock Lightning off the showroom floor. Again stick a big block in one of those trucks and your viewed as destroying the vehicle. I guess I'm a glutten for punishment and always seem to chose the path of highest resistance!!

[hotrod98]

So far this year, we've built three third gen Camaros. One 68 big block car, one 69 Z28 302 and one 67 that's getting the drivetrain out of a 2010 Camaro. They're all nice cars, but my favorite is still the big block 68 Camaro. It just says musclecar to me for some reason even though I prefer the 69 Camaro body style. I hate looking under the hood of a Camaro and seeing all of that room around a small block. Just doesn't look right to me.
As for Fords, my preference would be a Boss 429. I've owned many nice small block Mach's and I don't want any of them back.
It boils down to personal preference. I kind of get tired of the guys with the small blocks's claiming to have  kicked a big block's tail when all things being equal there's just no way.
 

[IMNCARN82]

In a straight line sure.At a strip. From light to light... Hmmmmm.     The 340 corners better.   

[Cooter]

I've told this story before, but here goes again..MY experience with the SB ANYTHING not limited to Chryslers, but I built a 340 .060, 11.5:1, Tunnel ram, twin 550 Holley's, 2.02/1.60 heads Ported to within an inch of their lives, NOS Pro Shot Fogger kit (set on 300 HP), 4.56:1 8 3/4 rear, 3500-4000 Stall Conv., 3800 LB '65 Satellite. My Brother had a Damn near stock '69 440 MAgnum with 2.14 1.81 "906" heads, FLAT top Replacement pistons (9.0:1), Stock crank and rods, 750 Vaccum Sec. Holley on a Strip Dominator intake and I stated one day I'd like to "try" out his car. Of course, he stated that with all that "go-fast" sh*t under my hood, I'd be a sure win..Plus, he stated his fuel pump was going bad and would fill and empty the carb bowls if he held it WOT...

I said Excuses, Excuses....He agreed and To my surprize, He'd run off and leave me, then I'd catch back up, run off and I'd catch back up...Come time to build another motor, I can tell you it's never been another 340.......I have never been so embarrased in my life....his engine cost less, had less, and still woulda got me....To this day, I still hear sh*t from My brother even though I've been a converted BB man ever since...I think it is a sad day when I can sell a 340 BLOCK for $1000 before I can sell a 440 HP ENGINE that isn't locked up and can't get $500.00.............. I guess people like being able to talk about the "Good 'ol days" when a 13 Sec. car was "King o the hill" on the street with a "Lil 340".


To this day, i would still rather have 5 cars running in the 7's than one car with all my money in it running in the 4's....SB OR BB.....

[hotrod98]

i would still rather have 5 cars running in the 7's than one car with all my money in it running in the 4's....

Amen brother...

[cudadave72]

My first post in this tread I stated that if your goal was all out power and straight line performance then dollar for dollar a big block was the way to go.

I think I made the above pretty clear. Now I'm real curious to some exact ets and mphs the cars in question are running. I will tell you this much, my Cuda is far from most powerful and fastest car out there by far. However is about the most perfectly balanced car I have ever owned. My car performs on the street exactly as it does at the track meaning if the Joe Blow catches me at red light with his 700hp big block he best not spin or I'm going to hand him his tail!!! Btw what did your small block run with a 300 shot of gas on it??? Plus your lucky it didnt blow clean apart. If my motor would hold a 300 shot of gas (the reason I'm getting a resto block) I can promise you that a slightly warmed over 440 would need a telescope to find me after I cleaned his clock. And keep in mind my engine is far from maxed out.

[Cooter]

My car performs on the street exactly as it does at the track meaning if the Joe Blow catches me at red light with his 700hp big block he best not spin or I'm going to hand him his tail!!!If Joe Blow did, he'd be an idot not to have his car hook up with all 700 HP these days...



Btw what did your small block run with a 300 shot of gas on it???
It held up for about 2 passes, then sent pieces of piston into the oil pan.


 Plus your lucky it didnt blow clean apart.
I was pretty ok with it, till I had to learn the hard way if you want an engine to actually live at the power levels I wanted, and I didn't have the $$ for a $3000.00 block, then I'd need a big block..
 If my motor would hold a 300 shot of gas (the reason I'm getting a resto block) I can promise you that a slightly warmed over 440 would need a telescope to find me after I cleaned his clock.
I've seen slightly warmed over 440's with a healthy dose of go juice run surprizingly quick times..Then again, I've seen 2.0 liter Mitsubishi's run surprizingly quick times with nothing more than a set of rods, pistons, and a HX40 Turbo...

BTW: The engine in the Dart was built back when Mopar strokers were VooDoo (1997)..Hughes had Just come out with the 505" motor and a buddy bought one, ran it for about 6 passes, spun a rod bearing, called Hughes told them what happened..They told him they wouldn't/Couldn't do anything for him, so he pulls the engine and orders a custom stroker @520 Cu. In....

I go over to the shop and see what I think is a STOCK 440 crank and inquire about buying what's left. He tells me that it's a stroker crank. Sells it to me for $400.00..Back then, that was alot of coin for a F'd up crank..

I roll the dice, turn the one journal .030 and slam it together with a .560 lift 265 Dur. @.050, solid lift cam. Iron heads (915), 2.08 Intake, 1.88 Exhaust valves. Major port work. Eagle Rods. CPPA underchassis headers 2" primary 4" collector. 3.91:1 Sure Grip cut and shortened stock axles.295/50/15 Hoosiers in back. 1050 Dominator carb on a Team G intake. a 250 NOS Cheater kit set @180 HP. Pump gas/cam 2 mix at the track. DROVE it to the track about 35 Miles one way, reset air pressure in rear tires, pulled to the line, clicked off a 7.19 first pass with a 2.80 60 Ft. time. Next few passes weren't all that, but by the end of the day, I had made a best pass of 6.85 @100 through the mufflers, on street tires, on pump gas/cam 2, on 180 HP  shot, with what's termed as a "Junk" motor, with iron heads.. I got a shade over $10K in the WHOLE CAR, but I ain't painted it yet neither..