good plan or not? supercharge in place of stroker

[Cooter]

MAking that kind of power no matter how many articles you read is NEVER as easy as just "Bolting on" a Blower and go racing...Nothing comes THAt easy IMO...

It takes ALOT of trial and error to make an honest 600 HP and even though the Rich guys make look easy, it isn't once you've popped a stock 440 with over $7500 worth of "bolt ons"....

[The Cuda Guy]

Line bore and install billet main caps and girdle 350.   bore , hone cam bearings, freeze plugs, 225 bucks or so, balance 175 bucks, deck block 125 bucks. Assembly not sure as of yet, hadnt decided

Alan,

Thanks for chiming in bro.  I didnt have the answers for him.    

Challngd73, moparal is building my engine for me and converting my car from a cruiser to a strip/street bruiser! 

Don

[challngd73]

Alan,

Thanks for chiming in bro.  I didnt have the answers for him.    

Challngd73, moparal is building my engine for me and converting my car from a cruiser to a strip/street bruiser! 

Don

Good for you cudaguy!  It sounds like it will be a stout motor for sure.  Almost tempts me to just spend the extra $2500 and stroke the motor with low compression pistons and then supercharge it all at once...

[Oldschool]

Good for you cudaguy!  It sounds like it will be a stout motor for sure.  Almost tempts me to just spend the extra $2500 and stroke the motor with low compression pistons and then supercharge it all at once...

Now yer talkin'......            

[Topcat]

Line bore and install billet main caps and girdle 350.   bore , hone cam bearings, freeze plugs, 225 bucks or so, balance 175 bucks, deck block 125 bucks. Assembly not sure as of yet, hadnt decided

This was mostly work. some parts are within the final price.
My block:

Sonic tested
Magnafluxed
Line Bored
Forged Pistons (I bought)
Bearings
Gaskets
Rings
Notched for stroker clearnace
Decked
Assembled

Probably a bunch of other stuff not mentioned besides

With labor, Came to: $2,088.00 for the block
Heads: $990.00 new springs incl.

[moper]

A few things would bother me. I think you are seeing the same pot at the end of the rainbow.. But missing the "everything else" stuff. Stroked big blocks are not mild and tend to need support stuff for that "cheap" crank and rods. The "cheap" parts need work to be reliable at bigger power levels too. The blower shop guy is in the business of selling kits. Putting any kit on a stock rebuild, cast piston, cast crank engine is a huge mistake. I ran a dyno shop that was a Procharger dealer and just tuning and basic setup can cause catastrophies when the engine isn't set up for boost. You'll spend money on a water injection system, which is a crutch, to avoid spending money on the parts that make the crutch un-needed? One way or another, you're spending. I dont think $5K is a realistic budget for an RB stroker. It could be done, but IMO not to the output level I'd be interested in. You can make 500hp with a cam and decent pistons and bolt ons with a stock stroke 440. The difference is you will make 500hp at 3Krpm witht he right parts on a 500" engine. Boost is cool. EFI is the only way to go. But for slightly more cash (looking at the big pisture) you can do boost right and safe, or do a stroker right and safe.

[challngd73]

.......Boost is cool. EFI is the only way to go. But for slightly more cash (looking at the big pisture) you can do boost right and safe, or do a stroker right and safe.

So, Moper, what would it entail to do boost the right way?  I really think I am leaning towards the supercharger.. If I stroke the motor AND supercharge it, it brings my power level way above what my fuel system can support.  So I think, for now, Supercharging it may be the ticket for me.  To make the bottom end strong enough, what would I need to do to it?  Better pistons, and connecting rods?  what else?

[72hemi]

$5700 seems a little high to me. Paxton has a bolt on kit for Mopars for around $3k (offer both big block and small block kits). I wonder what else you get for the extra $2700? Is water injection that expensive?

[challngd73]

$5700 seems a little high to me. Paxton has a bolt on kit for Mopars for around $3k (offer both big block and small block kits). I wonder what else you get for the extra $2700? Is water injection that expensive?

the water injection accounts for about $700 of that.  It also comes with a new power steering pump, and a sando(sp?) ac compressor, as I have an ac car.

[moper]

To do it right is the full fuel system, the good EFI, a solid longblock meaning a forged crank, good rods, very good pistons, good top end, perhaps an intercooler depending on what you're planning to run... Doing it right is not water or methanol injection. It's gettting the base engine strong enough, then using the right electronics to feed and control it so the band aids are not needed. Doing it right is starting with the foundation and building up for the result you want. Not simply adding parts that are not good together. That was my point.  It's always easier to see the cost first and go cheaper. It's never easier spending a portion of what should have been spent, then breaking something and havign to spend the total first amount plus to fix all of it. Do what you want to if you can afford to do it right. Because doing it half assed will not do what you want reliably, or not at all. I'd much rather have a lower output car that I can drive any time, anywhere, than something with monstrous power that's all bandaided to stay together. I actually watched a guy spend $50K+ ona  car trying to get it done without spending the $3K for a new block, and the $5K for the EFI and fuel system support parts. It never left without coming back in on a hook, and finally the engine totally let go and took $6K of parts already in it with it. It was a miserable experience for the guy and the car was known as a really pretty time bomb.

[Talkwrench]

I put a blower on one of my cars  [not the Cuda] and I can tell you this, best bang for buck !They stress far less than heavy cammed highly worked motor equivalent and they only work in the top end and are a pain in the ar*s+ to drive. Blowers have power right the way through, fantastic torque which is what you want on the road. I dont believe that you need much head work unless you want to pull serious HP , forced in anyway...and then you will be O ringing the block, cam  and using all the good stuff up to you how far you go. remember more PSI = more power = more money. Not sure why you would want water injection unless you have detonation problems..

 I used basic old school rules given to me by the guys running blowers for years..
   if you have 7.5 : 1 comp you can run upto 12 pounds of boost [ O ring block ] lots of initial timing, total mech timing to 30 dregrees all in by 3000 Rpm. make sure your running rich!
 My engine is pretty stock and Im putting 8 psi in, Ive even gone the cheap route and used de-compression plate [with a few tricks] I ve had no probs..

[Topcat]

Good article on Supercharging:

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/57.html

[Roppa440]

Your basic plan is exactly what I have been planning for a few years but am still waiting for the day when I have the funds to do it.
I have the same basic parts in my plan. But, as already mentioned, you need the static compression ratio down to 8:1 or less to really benift and even then you will probably also need a little water (or screenwash) injection to prevent detonation. Although if you could squeeze in an intercooler you might be able to do without the screen wash.

You will need a very strong bottom end and good rods and pistons. Don't bore and stroke it as well. Head gasket sealing can be a problem too but there are some good gaskets out there now that can cope. Just don't go silly with the boost.

A car I saw just a couple of weeks ago really underlines why forced induction is a good way to go. It was a hot rod with a 5.0 Ford engine and a rootes type supercharger on the top. The owner drove the car 410 miles to the track. Ran consistant 10.9s on street tires all weekend, and drove 410 miles back home again. If that is not "proof of the pudding" I don't know what is.

[Chryco Psycho]

I built a 440 on a budget & used a BDS 8/71 blower
we used good parts throughout starting with a steel crank , Premium rods & pistons with low compression around 7.8 & a well designed roller cam around .640 lift ,ran with massively ported iron heads the first year & ran 10.4 @133 @ 4000' altitude in a 3400 Lb GTX .
The second year we switched to ported Stage 6 Alum heads & ran 10.0 @ 136 using 12 PSI boost ,the engine had no issues for 3 solid years racing .
 I agree you need to build it right with good parts to use a supercharger & make it reliable , it costs a bit more up front but saves $$ over the long run

[challngd73]

well here is the deal, I got injured on the job and will be getting a settlement so I will some "play" money to work with.  I am sold on the supercharger and, after reading responses, will pull the motor and put a forged crank and pistons in it with some good rods, then fast xfi fuel injection and procharge it.  my question now is, will stock heads work till i can grab some ported aluminum heads?  I cant do all the required motor work AND supercharge AND get the heads all at once.  So if I build the motor to handle the power, will the stock heads work for the time being? I know it will limit the potential power output, but it will work for a year right?