440 question : Can you get 450-500 hp and 500-600 fpt without a stroker kit

[BB73Challenger]

I had a set of 906 heads rebuilt from a previous build it was about the cost of the stealth heads. I just went ahead and got them. When I did the math it only made sense to pick them up. Since those are already in the build, I'm primarily concerned with the bottom end. Whose stroker kit is better Mancini or 440source. That's good to know about iron heads tho  I appreciate all info I am a mopar sponge!!!

I know both are being used by several members here for different reasons.
440 Source has the kits at $2,100, not a giveaway by any means, but is nice because you get the bottom end ( crank,rods and pistons ) all balanced and ready to install after you have your machine work done ( once you order pistons, they don't care that it took another .010" to clean up a cylinder, those bad boys are yours )
A member here with the muy macho 543 ci ( 440 Source ) with Stealth heads showed up at Carlisle this year, what a beast.
Now, with a stroke and poke that big that required an external oil system, but that's another story.

The Mancini kit can be had unbalanced for much less, and if you ask The Cuda Guy I believe he is using their kit.
So even if you dropped 4 to 6 hundred on a decent set of pistons, you can see you are a third of the way to just going for a stroked 440.

So as who's is better, well it may depend on even more of how your build is going to proceed, if you are going to do the assembly and what kind (if any) work your block still needs.
Now it sounds like you need to talk to some guys who have purchased/used these kits.

PS - I know what you mean on the heads, I have been crunching numbers on a rebuild of my own, I found the same that by the time I have some one prep my old iron heads I'm almost to the cost of complete Stealths.

[torqueaddict]

BB73Challenger I guess what I'm really asking is what kit is more durable and uses the best parts, I guess the kit with the bigger displacement will give the most power, right?

[The Cuda Guy]

BB73Challenger I guess what I'm really asking is what kit is more durable and uses the best parts, I guess the kit with the bigger displacement will give the most power, right?

You cant really go wrong with name brands like Eagle, Diamond, Ross ect.  Summit sells some other kits too. 

The biggest stroke kit you can go with internal oil pick up is a 4.25 stroke.

Don

[torqueaddict]

Cuda Guy I am a novice what does 4.25 stroke equal? I know thats probably a dumb question.

[BB73Challenger]

Cuda Guy I am a novice what does 4.25 stroke equal? I know thats probably a dumb question.

The stroke is up and down travel of the piston.
More stroke means you are travelling more than had been originally planned, therfore when doing a major stroke, now stuff like the original oil pick up is in the way.

Yes more cubic inches can result in more power, again it is a double edged sword, how fast you want to go and how much do you want to spend.

From what I can see, a simple 496-500 ci stroker kit is common because you are able to still retain the stock oiling system. This is just one example of if you make a major change you will encounter more things that need to be adopted to fit the system.

So, which is better? I'm sorry, I can't answer that, I too have been looking, as I have been planning a 500 stroke for my BB.
Like I said earlier, I have heard both 440 Source and Mancini have good kits.
I personaly had planned on the 440 Source kit due to the fact that I plan to have the block bored (cleaned,chaecked, you get it ) and then with the 440 kit is balanced and ready to install, so I planed to assemble my block myself.

Hope that helps a little.

[torqueaddict]

Jeff your the man thanks. Mancini's kit is cheaper, plus I would just rather have my shop balance it. I have to do more research tho to ensure that kit will contain what I need, do you know the difference between flat topped and dished pistons? Thanks Jeff

[The Cuda Guy]

The mancini kit is a 4.15 stroke and will give you anywhere from 493-500 CID depending on bore size

The 440source 4.25 kit will give you from 505-512 CID depending on bore size.  Neil recommends this kit hands down.  He has used this on quite a few of his builds.  Here is a thread on one engine he did:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=54640.0

I agree with the ballancing, I bought the cheaper kit unballanced so Moparal's guy could do it and I have the comfort of knowing that it was done the right way.  Not saying that source or mancini dont do a good job on their ballancing, just want the extra care when it comes to my parts is all.

Don

[torqueaddict]

Thats pretty good, I wouldnt mind those kind of numbers I would probably try to get my compression around 12 due to the aluminum heads I have. That should put me at about 11 to 1, was the duration on the cam too much I hear you dont wanna over cam your motor.

[Cooter]

That should put me at about 11 to 1, was the duration on the cam too much I hear you dont wanna over cam your motor.

With that kind of Compression, it is alot harder to over cam the engine....It's when people dump a .750 Lift, 280 @.050 Solid Roller cam in a 1974 440 with the rest of the engine stock is when you run into over camming...

[torqueaddict]

I'm thinking 480 or 530 max lift how does that sound

[The Cuda Guy]

I think upper 500's lift is more where your cam selection should be based on some similar builds and desired results and other memebers input ect.

Don

[torqueaddict]

Hey cuda-guy do you have a build for a stroker with 600 hp and 600 fpt? I think I know what I want now? Or do you have to go so big with the stroker that you have to have an external oiling system? Cuda guy thanks bro!

[The Cuda Guy]

Hey cuda-guy do you have a build for a stroker with 600 hp and 600 fpt? I think I know what I want now? Or do you have to go so big with the stroker that you have to have an external oiling system? Cuda guy thanks bro!

Here is my engine that Alan is building for me.

493 CID
73 440 RB Block
4.15 Eagle Crank
Eagle Rods
CNC Ported Stealth Heads (Also cleaned up by Alan)
Solid Lunauti Cam .586 lift
1.5 Roller Rockers
Diamond Flat Top Pistons (10.5:1 comp ratio)
Engine Girdle
CNC Steel Main Caps & Studs
Windage Tray
Single Plane Intake
950 Carb
8qt Moroso oil pan
Headers
3inch exhaust
Internal Oil Pick up

And all the machine work that goes with making that combo.

Im hoping this gets me in the neighbor hood of 550-600hp, 550-600tq. at the flywheel.

As far as internal oiling vs. external oiling everything I have read or been told says that any crank larger than a 4.25 stroke will require and external oil pick up which is normaly 400-500$. 

Im no expert on these things as Im still learning from the guys on here, guys like Neil (Chryco Pyscho), Alan (Moparal), John (wagesofsin), Jason (Sledgehammer) and others. The guys I named are the guys I trust on mechanical advice, I would be asking them about this stuff to get an expert opinion.  I just know what they teach me. 

Hope this helps in some way?

Good luck with your build and keep us posted on it.

 

Don

[torqueaddict]

Don your help has put me in the right direction thanks man!!!

[The Cuda Guy]

Im just a guy who loves this mopar stuff, anytime I can help or offer an opinion I will be glad too! 

What is the direction your going?

Good luck with your build and keep us up todate.


Don