stroker motor? yay or nay?

[mopar12372]

http://mrlperformance.com/
just thought id help a bit , mike at mrlperformance is the best
honest / will always back up his work !!!

[moper]

I think goals of 100K miles, any sort of mileage, and 500hp/550tq are themselves self-cancelling. Factory engines had some issues reaching 100K miles. Mopars were great at it, but most after 20 years still only had 80K. If you plan to drive cross country on a regular basis maybe you'll get that high, but I would think you should re-appraise this goal. Gas mileage should be the dead last thing you worry about with the 1hp/inch engine. If you can't afford to fuel it, you can't afford to build it. So agiain, I'd say change the goal to simply accept whatever you get. Personally, I don't believe you could get better than 12-15mpg with a 3500lbs car, mild gears, and an overdrive trans or unit. lastly, the horsepower level... A longer stroke makes tons more torque. It also loads the block's main webbing more. Anyone with enough history of 440s around or over 500hp will tell you the weakest link is the block. Beyond that, camshafts designed for bigger engines wear things like valve springs much faster (comparatively speaking), shorter pistons are less stable so rings and pistons wear out faster... Basically, I'd say build what you want in terms of power, and for the life span and ,mileage, take what comes. The 496" RB (4.15 stroke, 6.76 rod) is a nice package and uses a taller piston which goes a long way to helping life and ring stability. The 505"RB (4.25 stroke, 7.10" rod) has a short piston and I wopuld not expect much more than 20K max from it. If anyone has legitimately gone further on one, I haven't heard about it. Maybe someone has... I doubt it. I do have personal experience with a 496 that has had about 25K on it, runs 11.30s in an E body with 4.10s, and smokes a little but runs well. (also runs a street solid roller cam). If it were me, I'd look into the 496" engine. I would not trust 440Source balancing, and thier kits will need work to make right, provided you have the initiative to really inspect the parts properly. They are still IMO the best value, but I've never had one that was good enough to simply drop in.

[aris_unlimited]

There was no guarantee I am going to stroke the motor. I am doing my build, and the stroker kit on my build is considered the least important thing on it. I will however have about a 9.5:1-9.7:1 compression ratio. A 292/292 duration cam with 509/509 lift. And some good aftermarket heads, I am thinking either 440source or edelbrock with either 80cc or 78cc. The stroker kit is mostly if I have money left over, why not?

As for 100k miles of reliability. That is a goal, not a demand. I will more than likely be happy as long as it runs decent and doesn't need $1k's in maintenance every year. The 20 mpg goal on the other hand is something I am really hoping to get close to.

[djwhog]

More lift less duration if you want MPG.

[440mike]

i dont understand why people have so much trouble, getting close to 500 streetable hp from regular 440 engine ?

the shop where i work, the boss regularily does .030 over 440s for pump gas, eddy heads W/some porting, better V/grind, RPM or Torker Intake, mostly adjustable rockers, and, depending upon the customers car application for camshaft(Flat tappet Hyd or Solid Flat tappet), we see anywheres from 475 to 520 hp when they hit the Dyno before Customer pickup !
they usually end up around 10 1/4 to 1 Compression with the eddy heads, and run great on pump gas.

dont get me wrong, i think strokers are great, but my point being, for the 500hp street level, and very reliably, the boss says they are cheaper to do ?
a crank grind and rod resizing is waayy cheaper than a 4340 crank and h beam rods ?

Many are even done with the later cast crank core engines, not the early forged crank cores, and using the stock "ly" rods W/arp bolts, which are FINE around 5500rpm with a MUCH lighter aftermarket piston.(KB or Forged)

personally, working where i do, we'd be embarassed to build a 496 or 512 at anywhere around or just above the 500hp mark ?

to each there own i guess, all i know, is we dont even start to think stroker at those numbers for the street ?

[Chryco Psycho]

no way I would run the 509 cam there are far better choices

[aris_unlimited]

If you guys have better ideas on the cam then let me know. This was the suggestion of an old engine builder I know, that's a friend of mine.

[aris_unlimited]

There were a couple people that said not to use that cam. I am giving them the oppurtunity to actually provide input, rather than the rather useless suggestion of simply not using that cam.

[72cudamaan]

There were a couple people that said not to use that cam. I am giving them the oppurtunity to actually provide input, rather than the rather useless suggestion of simply not using that cam.

     You really have a way with words, don't you.

[aris_unlimited]

I'm not trying to stir it up, I'm just stating the obvious. Telling me that there are other cams out there to better suit my purpose doesn't really help me lol. I'm not an engine builder and to be honest this will be the first engine that I have ever had a hand in building. That is why I went to a person I know that used to build engines, and that was his suggestion.

If anyone else knows of a cam better suited to my needs then I am all ears. But keep in mind that I don't want to have to go into the engine and constantly adjust anything due to the cam (I've heard of constant rocker adjustment with certain types of cams).

[moper]

I think it's a bit ass backwards to say the cubic inch/stroke will be determined if you have money left over. You basically have  a plan to build an engine, but have no idea what size? Really?
Here's the deal... Figure out how much you can spend. Then figure out the stroke. Then figure out the heads you can afford. Then you can think about matching the cam to the application and goals. I don't think you'll ever see near 20mpg, but maybe with OD and EFI... But the engine package will need to be perfectly matched. That means coming up with a budget, a plan, and stick to it.
just my $.02 based on building customer's engines for years.

[HP2]

Oh, I think he can get 20 mpg and 100k miles out of it, but probably not with 500 hp on tap.

My truck is knocking on the door of 20 mpg with a 440, 4bbl carb, 4:10 gears, and a 3 spd automatic, and it weighs almost 6000#. Drop that in a car weighing almost half as much, and it could be there. While it does have butt loads of torque from idle to 3500 rpm, it is not nearly 500 horses.

[moper]

I just think it's a lofty set of goals. But I think that's mainly because there's a fairly wide open plan and only a general idea of what each objective takes to meet. Nothing bad, just earlier than I initially thought in a fairly involved process and perhaps a need for a lot more solid information.