Dodge Viper caliper specs

[brads70]

I'm wanting to install Viper calipers on my 70 Challenger. Not a new swap I know. I thought I would post what I have been able to research on the Internet so far.

 I will have to make my own caliper brackets as no one makes a kit for the 73-74 e-body disc brake spindles. (They are available for a drum spindle though.  http://arengineering.com/instructsheet/index8.html ) I'm using the 11.75 x 1" rotor on my Challenger as I have 15" rims at the moment.... The braided  hoses are available in the link above too.



Ok the 1st and second gen ( 1992-2002?)

Front calipers

Vipers use the same front caliper, that uses a 13x 1 .260" rotor on the front

13x.870" rear rotor with a SINGLE piston sliding rear caliper  1992-2002 So the front caliper would work with a custom caliper mount and brake pad spacers ( two 1/8" spacers per caliper)

http://www.vipercentral.com/specifications/2000.html

I suspect the link above is outdated ( not current ) as it says specs for 2003-present but I know from the link below that at some point the rotors and calipers changed ( got bigger) If anyone knows when they changed please provide a link?



For 2003-2006 brake specs I found this. http://www.allpar.com/cars/viper/viperspecs.html

Which says they used 14x 1.260" rotors front AND rear? With 4 piston calipers front and rear.  I'm wondering if it's a misprint or error ? The rear rotors are 1.260" thick? But in 2008 they got thinner at .870"? Hummm sounds fishy to me?





the 2008-2010 Vipers used front calipers with 44/40mm pistons for 14x1.260" rotors

rear calipers used 42/38mm caliper pistons with the same size rotors as the front except the rears are thinner at .870". So I'm thinking to use the rear calipers on a rotor that's 1" thick, one would have to either make and install a 1/8" spacer between the caliper ( they look like the just unbolt to split the calliper in half?) Which would then require longer caliper body bolts and a new brake fluid transfer tube.

Or I wonder about milling 1/16 " off each pad ? ( I don't like this option!) What I don't know is if either of these calipers ( front or rear) will fit under a 15" rim? Anyone know?

http://www.allpar.com/cars/viper/2008-ACR.html

[Katfish]

Why don't you contact AR engineering, I'm sure he would help and save you a lot of work.

I really don't see any advantage to hanging the Viper caliper on the stock rotor.  I posted the question on Moparts and the general consensus was they look good and have more pad selection.

If you're going to do all that work, why not step up to a bigger rotor?

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6223501&an=0&page=5#Post6223501

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=6219219&Searchpage=1&Main=6217617&Words=+cnxt&topic=&Search=true#Post6219219

[brads70]

Why don't you contact AR engineering, I'm sure he would help and save you a lot of work.

I really don't see any advantage to hanging the Viper caliper on the stock rotor.  I posted the question on Moparts and the general consensus was they look good and have more pad selection.

If you're going to do all that work, why not step up to a bigger rotor?

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6223501&an=0&page=5#Post6223501

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=6219219&Searchpage=1&Main=6217617&Words=+cnxt&topic=&Search=true#Post6219219

Thanks for those Moparts links! Good reading!
With the 15" rims the bigger rotors won't fit. I just found out that the manufacturer of my rims makes them in 16" also!   I agree bigger rotors are a bigger advantage than the calipers. It's all about leverage.  I still think the piston area is bigger in any Viper 4 piston caliper than a stock sliding caliper. In my pea brain you have to double the area because of the 4 pistons per caliper. Maybe I'm wrong but in my head the "math" works?
But the real advantage that attracts me is the pad selection. If you could get good pads for a stock caliper I most likely wouldn't even be considering the Viper set up. As much as I love acceleration....I like stopping just as much!    The stock set up
 ( pads) scare me as they fade bad. I have a set of Firm feel pads ordered so I will try them out too if I get time before winter?
As far as "a lot of work" is concerned, it's not for me I have a complete machine shop in my garage. I'd consider it a fun winter project. I have a couple of chunks of stainless or 7075 T-6 aluminum all ready to tear into. Just need the calipers. Still trying to figure out which Viper calipers would be best.

[HP2]

Gotta admit, I'm a bit ignorant on the details and specifcs of all the different families of Viper calipers. I don't think you could substitute a rear in the front though, as the narrower rear Viper disc would make that caliper incompatible with the wider front 11.75 disc. You can space pads out, but you can't shrink rotor thickness

[73EStroker]

Brad  -if you are not anal about #'s then put a hydraboost on it. Drums rear and Cordoba disks on the front of mine - it stops real good even from 100+ mph. That is assuming that you have power steering though. I have the complete scanned document to help people install a GM van hb unit with all fitting, hose and adapter numbers. I can post this as it is a lot of research to get all of this info together. Let me know.

[autoxcuda]

Brad  -if you are not anal about #'s then put a hydraboost on it. Drums rear and Cordoba disks on the front of mine - it stops real good even from 100+ mph. That is assuming that you have power steering though. I have the complete scanned document to help people install a GM van hb unit with all fitting, hose and adapter numbers. I can post this as it is a lot of research to get all of this info together. Let me know.

Hydroboost is just power assist. Doesn't make you stop faster or resist brake fade. Just less effort on your foot.

I have manual cordoba disk and drums. Stops OK from 100+ once. But not from 100+ every minute and half or so. Sure I can lock them up at 100 mph but that won't stop the car well.

[brads70]

Gotta admit, I'm a bit ignorant on the details and specifcs of all the different families of Viper calipers. I don't think you could substitute a rear in the front though, as the narrower rear Viper disc would make that caliper incompatible with the wider front 11.75 disc. You can space pads out, but you can't shrink rotor thickness

Thanks for chiming in!
To get around the rotor dimentions, I was wondering if you could unbolt the caliper (splitting it in half) install a .150" shim and bolt back together. This would also require a new transfer tube to make up for widening the caliper. I just don't know if this caliper would fit with a 15" rim.

[HP2]

I suppose you could do that. I'm too chicken to try it and wouldn't even consider it unless the calieprs were free or darn cheap. If your paying regular used prices, I'd just spring for the front units you know will fit.

Check with Don Scharf for decent priced calipers; http://www.donscharfautomotive.com/

If  you have rims that are compatible with disc brakes now, odds are the Vipers will fit. I've tested them on probably a dozen different types of wheels from factory steel 15x7 jj to some really trick billet units. That isn't to say they will fit everything, but odds are in your favor. That is, unless you have some old mags from the 60s you are using. Then you may have found the ones they won't fit.

[brads70]

I suppose you could do that. I'm too chicken to try it and wouldn't even consider it unless the calieprs were free or darn cheap. If your paying regular used prices, I'd just spring for the front units you know will fit.

Check with Don Scharf for decent priced calipers; http://www.donscharfautomotive.com/

If  you have rims that are compatible with disc brakes now, odds are the Vipers will fit. I've tested them on probably a dozen different types of wheels from factory steel 15x7 jj to some really trick billet units. That isn't to say they will fit everything, but odds are in your favor. That is, unless you have some old mags from the 60s you are using. Then you may have found the ones they won't fit.

LOL Thanks for the link for some calipers. I found the same guy on e-bay and I've been waiting a few days for a reply. I joined "Viper Alley" and am asking around there too! I'm using the rims shown in my picture ( minilite knock offs)

[Katfish]

Any way at all you could do some real world measurements to see what the improvements are?

The only people advocating doing this on stock rotors are the guys selling the kit.  And if you read that Moparts post, you'll see the guy who makes the kit (Andy) says you probably wont see any improvement during normal driving.

I'm still not convinced you'll see any improvements and I'd bet it might be worse (piston area is smaller).

Maybe measure the distance required to stop from 60 or 100mph 3 times in a row?

[brads70]

Brad  -if you are not anal about #'s then put a hydraboost on it. Drums rear and Cordoba disks on the front of mine - it stops real good even from 100+ mph. That is assuming that you have power steering though. I have the complete scanned document to help people install a GM van hb unit with all fitting, hose and adapter numbers. I can post this as it is a lot of research to get all of this info together. Let me know.

I was eyeing the HB system on the wife's suburban ( Main family vehicle) wondering if she would miss it?
I'd like to see a copy of that?    I have a buddy that owns a wrecking yard and I could get what I need...?
This is the "good part" about having a 6 cyl car...I can do what I want and not feel quilty!

[cudazappa]

Or I wonder about milling 1/16 " off each pad ? ( I don't like this option!) What I don't know is if either of these calipers ( front or rear) will fit under a 15" rim? Anyone know?

To solve this problem of using a caliper and pad designed for a 1.26" rotor on a 1" rotor:

A/R Engineering made 1/8" pad spacers that went BEHIND the pads.  So they went between the pad and the caliper piston.  This takes up the slack.

I believe they are laser cut to form, not a milled piece.  See if he has any available.

[brads70]

Any way at all you could do some real world measurements to see what the improvements are?

The only people advocating doing this on stock rotors are the guys selling the kit.  And if you read that Moparts post, you'll see the guy who makes the kit (Andy) says you probably wont see any improvement during normal driving.

I'm still not convinced you'll see any improvements and I'd bet it might be worse (piston area is smaller).

Maybe measure the distance required to stop from 60 or 100mph 3 times in a row?

I can't see it being any worse that these fading pieces of crap that are on there now? And if I'm not happy with it I can sell it? but I don't think I'll be selling it? Maybe at some point down the road I'll get bigger rims and put on the bigger rotors.

[brads70]

To solve this problem of using a caliper and pad designed for a 1.26" rotor on a 1" rotor:

A/R Engineering made 1/8" pad spacers that went BEHIND the pads.  So they went between the pad and the caliper piston.  This takes up the slack.

I believe they are laser cut to form, not a milled piece.  See if he has any available.

Ya I seen those Thanks! I agree thats the better way to go, I just was wondering if the rear calipers would fit under a 15" rim, ( they look smaller than the fronts? ) that and I found a good deal on a rear set. But I think I'll pass.

[73EStroker]

Hydroboost is just power assist. Doesn't make you stop faster or resist brake fade. Just less effort on your foot.

I have manual cordoba disk and drums. Stops OK from 100+ once. But not from 100+ every minute and half or so. Sure I can lock them up at 100 mph but that won't stop the car well.

True! But I bet you I can push at 100lbs pressure on my HB and you push 100lbs on yours and I will get multiple times the brake pad pressure on the drums and discs than you would. It would be near impossible to get the same pressures without the HB given everything else equal.
Brad - you have to ask yourself one question - how did those Trans Am cars stop time and time again during racing with old braking technology? Then the next question is what are you looking for in brakes? You racing. Husband and wife team in Calgary race a 70 TA and a 73 340 Chally and they run manual brakes with 4 wheel discs on 15" rims. They pull 155MPH down the straight. They have to have stock or optioned equipment on their cars only - no 13" discs or such.