Steering box strangeness

[UKcuda]

There is something not right about my steering.  This is on a '72 'cuda with power steering.

My question is a simple one (see end of post) but I'll give some background to it first.

As I mentioned on here some months ago the steering wheel hardly wants to come back to center.  I have played with the alignment and I am convinced that is not the cause of it (long story).

Also, I have backed of the shaft adjustment, which did help a little, and I am 100% sure there is no tightness there at all.

Now, here's the wierd thing which I think is a clue to whatever is wrong:

Every year we have to get an official safety certificate ("MOT") and part of the test involves checking all the steering linkages etc.  To do this the tester puts the car on a lift, jacks up the front end, and moves the steering from lock to lock by grabbing hold of the front wheels and turning them (this is with the engine off).  Last year he commented that this was very hard to do.  I assumed this was tightness in the box which would have been cured when I backed out the adjuster, however, this year it is even worse, he could hardly move the steering at all and in the end he had to use the steering wheel.

BTW, this is the same guy who tested it last year and he doesn't look to have got any weaker !

I should also add that the steering is very easy to turn using the steering wheel, even with the power off it seems to turn just as easily as you would expect it to.

This is the fourth E-body I have had on the road and none of the others has exhibited this, they were all relatively easy to turn using the road wheels.  So I am thinking this is probably the same reason why my steering doesn't want to come back to center when I'm driving even though everything else seems OK and the effort at the steering wheel is normal.

So, my simple question is:  what can cause the steering box to be resistant to being turned from the output end but still be just easy to turn from the input end ?

[Supercuda]

Disconnect the Pitman arm from the linkage or steering gear, and see if the tightness goes away when the linkage is moved by the tire. If not, it's one of the ball joints binding. If the tightness is gone, check the steering gear for binding in the gears inside. If you find the problem in the steering gearbox, GET RID OF IT. Just start fresh, and use a quality remanufactured or new gear. If this is not an option, it's time to get dirty. Normally reused parts in the gear will likely need replacement.

[Bullitt-]

Valve adjustment
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=64269.msg659610#msg659610

[ChallengerHK]

Valve adjustment
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=64269.msg659610#msg659610

That was my first thought too, Wade, but would the valve adjustment matter with the engine off and the pump not being driven?

[Supercuda]

The centering valve would only affect the steering gear with the p/s pump running and making pressure.

[Bullitt-]

That was my first thought too, Wade, but would the valve adjustment matter with the engine off and the pump not being driven?

I would not think that with the engine off the pump could have any effect, but my car sitting still seemed normal but as soon as I moved it the steering took off to the right & I had to steer it straight.
The caster setting would, you want positive caster, top leaned back. If you have negative caster the wheels would not recenter themselves.

[Aussie Challenger]

Camber and caster adjustments only effect the wheels when driving, not on a hoist. My bet is the steering box, the idler arm might cause a problem but not to the extent you have described.

[UKcuda]

Thanks for your thoughts.

My castor angle is maxed out anyway but as stated, that shouldn't cause any problem just sitting with the wheels off the ground.

I think I will try disconnecting the linkage as per Supercuda suggestion.  If it's a tight ball joint or idler I will be surprised (but happy).  I can try the box from my basket case '74 but I suspect that one's not in great shape either !

I am not looking forward to a job of changing it.  I only just put the headers back on last weekend after swapping the heads over 

[Chryco Psycho]

try flushing out the fuild & possibly dirt or other contamination

[UKcuda]

try flushing out the fuild & possibly dirt or other contamination

OK, I'll try that as well, it looks like a long shot but it sure beats changing the box etc.

At least the garage still passed it on the inspection, evrything else was fine, some other places I know would have failed it just on this, and then I wouldn't even be in a good position legally to road test it.

[UKcuda]

Here's an update, even more strangeness, I wonder if anyone can explain it.

I have checked all the steering linkage and it is all freely moving and correctly assembled.  I found some misalignment in the column which I have corrected and that has made the steering feel smoother, but it still won't return on it's own coming out of turns.

Now here's the really strange thing.  As stated above, if I try to turn the steering using the road wheels it is very hard, almost solid.  But if I first turn it with the steering wheel all the way out one way, and then try to turn it back to center using the road wheels it is nice and easy, until I get somewhere about the straight ahead position, then it goes hard again and won't go either way.  It does the same thing left or right lock.  This is with the engine off.  If I do it with the engine running I can't move it at all.

I am going to try changing the fluid, only I don't know what fluid I can get which would be most correct.  Not sure if modern Mopar steering fluid is the same.  Anyone know ?

[Chryco Psycho]

the steering is designed to be tightest at the center point , is the adjuster on the top of the box adjusted too tight , try backing it off a turn or so , it is usually a hex bolt with a lock nut around it to lock it

[UKcuda]

the steering is designed to be tightest at the center point , is the adjuster on the top of the box adjusted too tight , try backing it off a turn or so , it is usually a hex bolt with a lock nut around it to lock it

I've already backed it out quite a bit, if anything I think it's too loose.

Was the site down yesterday? I only got on for a few seconds.

[Aussie Challenger]

Yes several times.

[nqkjw]

For fluid use Dexron type3.
Same as auto trans fluid.

And a long shot for the problem from me.
Possible a piece of rubber from inside the flexible lines come adrift forming a flap which opens and closes(or nearly closes)flow.
Had it on hydraulic hoses on my earthmoving machines.Causes strange symptoms and not easy to diagnose or track down.
Not common but possibe.