Hurst Drivelines TKO 5 Speed converison kit ...

[_Russ_]

Has anybody installed one of their Elite Kit's? (auto to manual conversion)

And more importantly, what did the entire kit cost? I've dropped them a couple emails over the past 6 months, and have never had a response.

My Challenger is due to arrive in 2 weeks, and I need to start lining this up. Once I'm accustomed to LHD, I want to convert it to a 5 speed manual - and their kit looks like the ducks nuts.




 

[Road_Runner]

I'm sure you're already thinking this, but I would definitely have reservations dealing with a vendor who doesn't return your emails BEFORE you even buy their product.  What is the likelihood that they'll support it well after you give them your money.  That said, I've had a lot better results just picking up the phone and calling a company's tech/help line.  I know that means losing sleep for you, but for that kind of money (probably $4k - $5k U.S) it would be worth the cost of the call.  I myself am very interested in either the Mcleod or Passon units for my Roadrunner as they are both supposed to install exactly like the stock 4 speed would, supposedly no cutting or mods at all.  Both are supposed to be released in the coming year so if your timeline allows, check em out.

Later, Jim

[bigblue73]

The e-mails are fielded in California and are answered by them daily.  I can give you a quotation as well.  Please give me the specifics on your car though.  I need engine size, current or expected tire size and rear end gears (Dana or 8 3/4) as well.  I'll tell you everything you need and the sources of supply for the items that are required that we do not stock in California.  I will also need your delivery address location to accurately get you a quotation.  We use BAX Global for our international shipments.

Thanks for the interest!

Tony Edler
Mopar Sales and Support
Hurst Driveline Conversions
e-mail:  tony@hurst-drivelines.com

[boydsdodge]

I did the Keisler kit, nice guys everything I needed with some tech help.
$4000.00

[_Russ_]

The e-mails are fielded in California and are answered by them daily.  I can give you a quotation as well.  Please give me the specifics on your car though.  I need engine size, current or expected tire size and rear end gears (Dana or 8 3/4) as well.  I'll tell you everything you need and the sources of supply for the items that are required that we do not stock in California.  I will also need your delivery address location to accurately get you a quotation.  We use BAX Global for our international shipments.

Thanks Tony.

Car: 1970 Dodge Challenger.
Engine: 383 Magnum.
Trans: 727 TF.
Diff: 8 3/4 3.23 Suregrip
Wheels: 15"x8"
Tyres: Front: 235/60/R15 Rear: 255/60/R15

Just to clarify, I'm after the Tremec TKO 5 Speed Conversion Kit - Elite Kit

I won't be buying this for at least 2 months (car hasn't even arrived yet), but need to know a price so I can start putting money away. A Ballpark figure is fine.

Don't need a price for international shipping. When I finally do purchase the kit it will only need freight to LA, and a company here will bring it in for me.

Thanks mate 

[Mopar_Mudder]

The e-mails are fielded in California and are answered by them daily.  I can give you a quotation as well.  Please give me the specifics on your car though.  I need engine size, current or expected tire size and rear end gears (Dana or 8 3/4) as well.  I'll tell you everything you need and the sources of supply for the items that are required that we do not stock in California.  I will also need your delivery address location to accurately get you a quotation.  We use BAX Global for our international shipments.

Thanks for the interest!

Tony Edler
Mopar Sales and Support
Hurst Driveline Conversions
e-mail:  tony@hurst-drivelines.com

Maybe this is a loaded question but I have to ask. Their are various dealers out their that sell TKO kits: Hurst, Keisler, American Powertrain are the main one that I know of.

Question is are they all the same exact Tremec transsmision or are some putting different parts then others in them. They all claim to be the best of course but it seems hard to find out what the differences are. I don't mean to put you on the spot bigblue73, and don't mean for you so slam your competition, but you are probably the most qualified to answer. If you prefer not to I understand. If it is all the same parts and comes down to service, well your presence on this board goes a long way for me.

[bigblue73]

A fair and excellent question!  Here is what you are after.  The transmissions for all Mopar are the Ford based TKO's - It's the input shaft length that is important.  The torsion bar cross member is ultimately in the way for the one or the other has to be modified.  The transmission tail housing is the best choice and the machining provides the necessary clearance for the installation.  Next - The offset shifter which is remote to the transmission.  Hurst made a decision to use a version of the McLeod Slipstik for it's shifter.  It's a great piece that uses ball and detent technology to transfer motion into the transmission.  Now wear points and every motion is put into the transmission.  The other use a linkage design that has wear points and can present potential problems....however all can be rebuilt.  The cross members are used to set the proper drive line angle with respect to the drivetrain.  Every method of fabricating a cross member is used - all are solid foundations.  One big difference that has been looked at by Hurst is the output yoke length from the transmission.  By doing some additional machining to the tail housing. The yoke can be moved further inboard to achieve better engagement to the tail shaft.  The more yoke that hangs out the back of the transmission the higher potential for vibration.  Hurst worked with McLeod, QuickTime and Inland Empire Driveline to determine the best scenarios when they brought the mopar line to market.  Was it to be in competition to Keisler - Yes.  Hurst feels they have a better product and will provide service after the sale to anyone with any kit from any vendor.  Yes you read that right.  The transmission swaps are not rocket science, it's the correct components together to make a package the works and works reliably for many many miles.  Overdrive is the way to go and with the announcement of the McLeod transmission and even the Passon 5 speed, the mopar public will have options.  Which is a good thing.

One thing that I have to point out is everyone that is thinking of doing this swap...ask questions.....ask them often to obtain your confort level.  Educate yourselves get the questions answered that you want to know about.  The forum boards are both good and bad.  The problems that are normally incurred with these installations are not necessarily the transmission but lie deeper into the chassis or practices used during the installation (skipping important steps).  I hope this answers some of the questions that you may have with the exception of one - the cost.

The cost is driven up by the amount of time involved in the modifications - the assembly and re-assembly that is part of the process, the addition of required components to compliment the machining and bring the shifter up in the correct location.  It all takes time - extra parts (added expense) and that is where the cost factor comes in.
One thing that most of us forget is the expense for advertising.....speaking from the inside I was floored at the cost of this.  That's part of doing business and it gets risky when you calculate how many units you need to sell a month to break even, especially in todays economy.

Keep the questions coming -

Tony

[ragtopdodge]

Keisler's comes with some extra sheet metal to hack and patch the floor with b/c I guess there's fittment issues even on e-bodies.

Does the Hurst kit come w/that if that's necessary?

[_Russ_]

Keisler's comes with some extra sheet metal to hack and patch the floor with b/c I guess there's fittment issues even on e-bodies.

Does the Hurst kit come w/that if that's necessary?

Sure does.

Jacked from the Hurst-Drivelines website:

The Hurst Driveline Conversions ELITE Tremec TKO kits include the following components:

   1. Transmission. All new Tremec TKO-500 or TKO-600 transmission modified by Hurst Driveline Conversions specifically for your E-Body or B-Body Mopar. Includes custom engineered Hurst Sidewinder side-mount shifter for stock shifter location and appearance. No console modifications required! Hurst Sidewinder side mount sifter exclusively available from Hurst Driveline Conversions.
   2. Crossmember. Custom crossmember. Direct bolt in - no modifications required.
   3. Driveshaft. 3 1/2" steel driveshaft complete with premium Spicer u-joints and Spicer slip yoke, custom built for your car. All driveshafts are balanced using state-of-the-art equipment. Aluminum driveshafts also available for an additional charge.
   4. Speedometer cable/adapter. Custom mechanical speedometer cable with integrated adapter and gear. Electric speedometer kits are also available.
   5. Pilot bearing. Custom made needle roller pilot bearing.
   6. Transmission mount. Energy Suspension polyurethane transmission mount for long life and durability.
   7. Bellhousing. Custom engineered Husrt Driveline Conversions small block aluminum bellhousing designed for the Tremec TKO-to-Mopar engine block application. Big block scattershields also available.
   8. Clutch kit. High Performance mid-shifter clutch kit - 550HP. Complete with disc, diaphragm pressure plate, clutch alignment tool and hardware.
   9. Flywheel. Billet steel flywheel. Includes grade 8 flywheel bolt set.
  10. Shift bezel. Mopar 5-speed shift bezel.
  11. Shift stick. Reproduction pistol grip shifter handle.
  12. Reverse light switch connector. Convenient pigtail connector.
  13. Tunnel patch. Pre-formed tunnel patch. Includes cutting template.
  14. Hardware Kit. Complete specialty hardware kit for a hassle free installation.
  15. Installation instructions/information. Step-by-step, illustrated car model specific instruction manual to answer your most detailed questions and help you with your installation.
  16. Customer support. Unlimited, lifetime technical support. Rated #1 in customer support and service.
  17. Extended warranty. Free one year extended warranty from Hurst Driveline Conversions on all kit components. Some restrictions apply.

Optional components:

    * Big block scattershield. SFI approved steel scattershield with block saver plate, clutch fork pivot bracket and all hardware. Add $275
    * Strip Comp clutch kit - 650 HP. Complete with dual friction disc, diaphragm pressure plate, clutch alignment tool, and hardware. Add $100
    * Hydraulic clutch kit. Complete hydraulic clutch kit includes adjustable hydraulic release bearing, compact style master cylinder with remote mount reservoir, master cylinder firewall mounting bracket, custom fluid lines and fittings, hardware, and comprehensive installation instructions. $545

    * Call for for information and pricing on additional components.

[Tom Quad]

I am weary of all these tremec vendors that side step the real issue with these so called kits.   
Hint: a tremec is a very tall trans, an 8333 or TF is not

Does the geometric position of the tail shaft end up in the exact same place as the stock transmission??? You see children if you move that position everything else moves with it-fan position, clutch linkage, air breather does not seal to the  fresh air hood etc...so tell me because i am such an idiot how these conversions are an improvement

Just answer the question and prove it with pictures and drive line angle measurements. 

[bigblue73]

Yep! And here is how it was done.  The engine and transmission create a three point mounting scheme.  In converting these cars as prototypes for the kits -  A brace was installed under the car, fastened to the chassis and used to position the engine in the location that it previously was in with the 4 speed.  The brace was removed, transmission lowered and removed and the brace re-installed to position the motor in the correct position.  New bell housing was installed which is an exact replica of the mine - it was my unit the mold for the casting was made from.  Brace again removed, engine lowered, Tremec installed, brace re-installed.  Next was the isolation mount and then careful measurements for the cross member.  As far as driveline angles - 3.12 degree's down using a machinist scale.  The Tremec is a taller and longer transmission - correct.  The geometric position of the end of the tail housing does NOT end up in the same spot as the 833 4 speed.

I have pictures - lots of pictures - Would you like me to e-mail them to you and is there anything special you are wanting to see?

[Mopar_Mudder]

Thanks for all the info bigblue73, it is alot of help.

I do have one more question that I could PM you about but other may be interested in the future so I thought I would through it on here.

You gave me a quote back in August for a TKO-600 kit and you also priced a hyro clutch system on it. Is the hydro clutch needed for any certain reason or just something that can be added. I want to keep a somewhat stock appearance under the hood so I would like to stick with the stock linkage if possible.

Also you speced a place to get the 4 speed hump. Is this the same as a stock 4 speed hump? Because I already have a stock one.

OK guess that was two questions

[Mopar_Mudder]

One more thing. Theirs is alot of talk of hard 2-3 shifts with this tranny, but alot of it is old information. Has this been corrected at all in newer transmissions?

Here is an interesting link: http://www.w8ji.com/tko_600_shifting_problems.htm

[ragtopdodge]

I'm holding out hope for Passon's 5-speed to come to reality.  The thought of no floor hacking is very appealing.  The 2-3 shift issue w/the TKO doesn't sound all that appealing as well.

[bigblue73]

Great article about the 2-3 shifts being hard.  Yes their has been people that have had trouble in the past.  Here is what I tell most people, especially 4 speed users about missing shifts right off the start.  It's amazing the folks that do and I have even done it.  The shifting pattern is different on the TKO versus a 4 speed.  The 1-2 shift is straight back on the 4 speed.  The 1-2 on a 5 speed is actually slightly angled to the right, 2-3 is straight forward.  The 4 speed shift for 2-3 is straight angle away and to the top. See the difference. 

I suspect the the forks are the issue here and I've put a phone call into Liberty to see exactly what they do.  I'll let you know what they say.  I'll try and get the exploded view of the TKO and highlight the parts that I are they are talking about. 

Tony