Baddest of the Bad Old School Street/Strip Big Block: Help Me Decide

[Road_Runner]

OK, I've settled in on most of the choices for my 70 Roadrunner:  I'm getting a rebuilt 69 B-body Dana 60 with 4.10 gears, going to go with one of the O/D 5 speeds probably either the Passon or McLeod units, and some form of naturally aspirated old-school appearing big block.  I've gone back & forth between stroking the 383, or a stroker 400, 440 or my ultimate wish-list engine a stroker Hemi (528 maybe?).  What I want is as fast as practical street/strip combo so that the Bird can at least be in the upper echelon of street cars.  That said, I know a non-tubbed, full interior old school style 70 Roadrunner will never compete with some of the extreme cars running around Atlanta: 1000+ HP dual turbo Vipers & Supras, blown LS7 Vettes, etc. but still want it to be fast enough to be considered Bad A$$.  And whatever engine I go with the intake/carb setup has to work with the Airgrabber hood so we're talking about either single 4 bbl, Six Pack, or Hemi 2x4 setups.  Since I'm going with some form of super HD / 23-spline trans and heavy duty Dana, I'm wondering if the stroker B blocks 'keep up' with the rest of my choices.  Obviously, cost matters.  If I go with the Hemi it will likely delay completion by at least a year while I save my nickels & dimes for the motor.  And although resale doesn't matter as I plan to pass down my cars to my kids, the Hemi still commands a little more respect at shows, etc.  Given my goals and lack of bags of money to spend, which way would you go?  I've gone back & forth so much on this I'm going to keep my current thinking to myself until after I hear your thoughts.

Thanks, Jim

[Topcat]

Well you know my vote.

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w55/topcatcuda/?action=view&current=100_3767.mp4

[The Cuda Guy]

If you can afford it go with the hemi.  I think you will have traction problems more than anything with any engine you decide to go with.  If money is no object go with a hemi.

Don

[Road_Runner]

Well you know my vote.

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w55/topcatcuda/?action=view&current=100_3767.mp4

Sweet engine. I take it that's yours.  Do you have it in a running car yet, and if so how much fun is it? 

My guess is that its a blast.  Big surprise, the Hemi is what I'm strongly leaning towards especially since I've got the Barracuda to have something to drive until the RR is done in a couple of years.

Later, Jim

[Road_Runner]

If you can afford it go with the hemi.  I think you will have traction problems more than anything with any engine you decide to go with.  If money is no object go with a hemi.

Don

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking, too. Not that money is no object, more of a situation where I want to do it once and I'm willing to wait to do it the way I want.  Definitely agree about traction being the limiting factor for 1/4 mile times with the RR, my son runs a 500+ HP all wheel drive Audi TT.  Nobody messes with him off the line, nobody....

Later, Jim

[HP2]

Well, those are some pretty stout numbers for street cars. For sake of comparison, Indy crate program offers the following; 605" RB street master, 750hp, 775tq, $19500. 528" supercharged street legend Hemi, 950 hp, 890tq, $26000. 605" street legend Hemi, 830hp, 830tq, $22200.

Pick your poison...

[Road_Runner]

Well, those are some pretty stout numbers for street cars. For sake of comparison, Indy crate program offers the following; 605" RB street master, 750hp, 775tq, $19500. 528" supercharged street legend Hemi, 950 hp, 890tq, $26000. 605" street legend Hemi, 830hp, 830tq, $22200.

Pick your poison...

Agreed, some of the HP/TQ numbers for cars on the road now a days are just insane.  There's a twin turbo Viper GTS on the northside of ATL that runs 8's in the 1/4. (My son knows who this is and has shown me the Youtube video of it doing just that!)  My Roadrunner is never going to see those kind of times and I'm not even going to try.  But solid 10's would be a blast and if I can get the power to the ground it should be doable with a stout stroker motor.  All of the engines you list are on the high end of what I'm thinking of, mostly due to cost.  I've seen some engine builds in Mopar mags and crates listed on Ebay etc. that makes me think I can get in the 600 HP/TQ range from either a Hemi or 500+ RB stroker for $15k or less.  I figure that kind of power with the 4.10 rear should get me there or real close.  Image matters, too.  I want whatever I go with to look like it came right out of the 70's so things like aluminum heads will be covered in Hemi orange paint, no obviously modern intakes, etc.

Later, Jim

[Topcat]

A Hemi built up right will take longer and cost more than you would expect. Definitely not as easy to get everything for example like an LA block set up.

[femtnmax]

Leave enough $$ left to work on traction, keep the front end as light as possible, maybe add trunk weight. Just some ideas.
Many times I've been told the 440 6 pack would run with the hemis, both in stock form, and the 6 pack was much cheaper to build.
In stock form, when you launched on the wrong pavement my old 440 GTX with 4.10 dana posi would turn sideways in one snap of your fingers.  Maybe remove the secondary carb linkage when you give it to your kids ...you want them alive right

[The Cuda Guy]

You could build a engine cheaper than a crate.  You just have to have the desire and some know how.  Machining will be a cost issue.  And 600 hp with a stroker hemi is easy, so I hear.

Don

[Oldschool]

Road_Runner, I am in the north Atlanta area and have a couple of real life examples of both of the engines you are discusing. A stroker RB engine and a 528" Hemi. If you ever want some information about either build, just let me know. The RB is a pump gas, hydraulic cam, out of the box eddys, intake, carb and headers. It is in the 500-550 hp range easy. This motor is in a '69 Dart and it runs high 10's. The Hemi info is posted here:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=72586.0

I know some awesome Mopar performance machinists in our area. Let me know if I can help you out or PM me...          

[Road_Runner]

A Hemi built up right will take longer and cost more than you would expect. Definitely not as easy to get everything for example like an LA block set up.

I know exactly what you're saying.  I've been collecting parts for a hemi swap for years & have a lot of what I need: Original 2x4 hemi aircleaner & 2x4 intake.  OE black wrinkle valve covers, another 70 k member to have converted to a hemi k frame (conversion not done yet), 26" radiator brace out of a 70 plymouth, and various bits & pieces.  I still have the big ticket item, the motor to go, but a lot of what I got wasn't cheap but was necessary for the correct 70's look I'm after.

Later, Jim

[Road_Runner]

You could build a engine cheaper than a crate.  You just have to have the desire and some know how.  Machining will be a cost issue.  And 600 hp with a stroker hemi is easy, so I hear.

Don

I'm tempted to build this myself, but it would be my first non-motorcycle engine rebuild and I'm not sure a high HP stroker is the best first time motor for me.  The Barracuda's small block on the other hand is something I plan on doing myself, at least the assembly & installation. 

Later, Jim

[Road_Runner]

Road_Runner, I am in the north Atlanta area and have a couple of real life examples of both of the engines you are discusing. A stroker RB engine and a 528" Hemi. If you ever want some information about either build, just let me know. The RB is a pump gas, hydraulic cam, out of the box eddys, intake, carb and headers. It is in the 500-550 hp range easy. This motor is in a '69 Dart and it runs high 10's. The Hemi info is posted here:

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=72586.0

I know some awesome Mopar performance machinists in our area. Let me know if I can help you out or PM me...       

Hi Ken, you do have experience with both engines I'm considering.  I read up on your Barracuda hemi, and you're a little more hardcore than I'm going for with the spool, fiberglass panels, etc. Plus, I'm wanting to row my own gears with a 4/5 speed even though I know the 727 would be the faster combo.  So maybe with a similar engine and my other differences I could still see 10's with mine.  I would definitely appreciate a heads-up on Mopar savvy shops in the area.  Years ago, I used the group that ran the Honest Charley's hemi cars in the 70's to help with my RR's engine build.  Since then, most of the Mopar shops have disappeared.  I'm going to be working on the RR in 2011, but I'll probably concentrate on the Barracuda for the most part and at the very least I could use someone to go over the 302 heads I want to put on the 318 along with a 4 bbl.  Or I'm going to build the 340 block I have and swap that in, so maybe I could use the recommendations for that engine build.

Thanks, Jim

[Cooter]

Hmmmm, Lemme see....1970 Road Runner....Straight gear, Dana 60, and Old Skool V8 Big Block....
                                                      VS


1993 Toyota Supra, 2003 Corvette, etc....


A 1970 Road Runner is definately the "Badass" car of that bunch without even hittin' the track..