Hemi v.s. Wedge

[The Cuda Guy]

Guys, what are your opinions and why?  Drag car engine what is better the hemi or the Wedge?

Don

[whitesatinmopar]

Cant personally make an experienced call, but part of it has to be how deep your pockets are, or how much BS you got to get sponsorship  However, a wedge will get ya out of the hole qucker with great 60 ft. and 1/8 mile times, but in the quarter your lead at the 1/8 better be a good one cause that Hemi is just getting started. 

[HP2]

For all out drag racing, there is a reason the fuel classes still run with Hemi headed engines.

However, the wedge has enjoyed more and further development over the years which has driven down cost while improving performance.

There is no right answer here as it is more rules dependant by your class, IMO.

[whitesatinmopar]

Jason,      Great run, but also remember as in any kind of race, equipment can put out the necessary goods when tuned and tweeked properly, but the driver needs to be as good as or better than the car..................agreed?  No question you have built a monster, but you ALSO know what and HOW to drive it. A friend of a friend, I'm not going to do any name dropping but, he was at a nationally certified race this past summer where a well known and liked driver who belongs to a Chrysler sponsered crew had some equipment failure that knocked him out for the day. He was just causually walking around the "lesser" pit areas being the nice guy he is by stopping by and talking Mopars and racing. Well this friend just out of BS talk aked and suggested he drive his car in his class matches. His jaw dropped when he said sure he would. They went to the race officials and did what they had to do to officially change driver status. Well long story short this driver and my friends friend's car won the race in his class and the car had never before made it past the third round. Driver's do also make the difference.  The other great part of the story is when it came time for getting paid for the victory this well known driver gave it all back to the car owner................and told him of a couple areas he could improve his et.     Just saying, 

[The Cuda Guy]

Jim that is a great story!  That was really cool of the driver to help out the other guy.  Dont worry we all know Jason is ready to compete, I asked the question to spark discussion, that being said getting the wedges to flow like hemi heads is the trick I think.

Don

[Cooter]

IMO, it's very simple....WEDGE....

I'd MUCH rather get outrun in a wedge BY a HEMI, than in a HEMI by a WEDGE....


Rich folks run the HEMI...Poor folks run the wedges....The Engine challenge engines @ 500 C.I. proved that the HEMI and the WEDGE engines BOTH (When money is a concern) produce the same power on PUMP GAS...

In fact, I seem to recall an article in MM magazine that stated the HEMI 500 C.I. challenge engines produced LESS HP AND torque than the WEDGE counterparts with everything being as level a playing field as can be...

The HEMI has enjoyed ALOT of BS stories from folks from yesteryear about how the dominated the streets and tracks back then, but let's actually see what the all mighty Hemi dominated? I mean, the fastest thing going in the early to mid 80's was running what? High 10's and you were the sh*t?

Nowadays, there's 283 SBC out there that would weld a Hemi's ass to the pavement in the 1/4 mile as are some ricers.....I know of one perticular guy here local that bought a new crate Hemi when they first came out as he had to have the latest thing before anybody else could even think about it....
Tries to put his own performance cam in it, gets the pushrods in backwards and blows it up..He then goes to one of the "Mopar guys" around here local RAM racing engines(Bill Richardson), and has him go through it for the third time..Charges the guy like an Extra $5500.00 or something nd he finally has it running....

Well, this "Gentleman" comes down to a buddies shop with this thing sounding like Don Garlit's Top fuel car and proudly PROCLAIMS he has the fastest car in four counties....Well, Me being the skeptic I am, I stated that that is ALOT of area to try and cover...Just then, one of my buddies buddies who was standing there the whole time simply asks if he'd like to explain that to a little Blue Plymouth Valiant with a 440 Wedge in it....


long story short, three out of three, the Valiant got him....I thought dude was gonna cry..He simply bought into all the "Hemi is the greatest thing since sliced bread" theory and after all that money, a simple $2500.00 440 crushed him....


The same thing applied when I was running Chevy, and the 454 "Rectangle port" heads on the street...Hadda guy in a 454 Chevelle run round me with a set of "Dump truck" oval port, heads on it...I couldn't understand it? I mean, Rectangle port heads were the sh*t right?  Wrong....

Same thing applies to the "Boss" 302's and the 302 DZ Chevy..

The Hemi @ 426 C.I. mighta been the sh*t back in the day, but when there's 500 C.I. SMALL BLOCKS now, it has too much head and not enough bottom end....

[The Cuda Guy]

Cooter, Thanks for the input. 

There are a lot of factors in racing.  I think that with the new heads Stealth/RPM/EZ/SR/ and -1 heads wedge can compete better than ever with a Hemi of similar CID.  Would I like to own a hemi?  Heck yeah!  But I think that the 493 that Alan is building me will hold its own aginst a similar CID hemi.  As Neil always says you can build a 440 stroker of half the cost of a similar hemi.  Just sayin.

Don

[Cooter]

Well, they both have their places in Drag Racing for sure. I've just been partial to the wedge, as I haven't been able nor will I, to own a Hemi..

[mopar12372]

i also depends on who puts the engine together . i agree on both sides of this story .
i am just glad that we get our share of after market parts after all these years .
myop when mopar fell out of nas car the r and d that went into these engines went with them .
now you see the mopars creeping to the top .

[Oldschool]

Since it appears that no one will step up to the plate and represent the Hemi, I will stir the pot a little more. I have run both for many, many years and here is what I have experienced over and over with very few exceptions.
I am going to assume all other things are going to be equal between the cars here  --  car weight, gearing, tires, cubic inches, etc....
Stock for stock, the wedge will run with the Hemi for 500 feet till maybe the 1/8 mile -- then it is all Hemi, Assuming equal traction, or lack therof. The Hemi will drive around the wedge on the big end and pull away. I have never seen it turn out any other way. Of course as SledgeHammer said above it is all about the tuner. A well tuned 440 will walk away from a poorly tuned Hemi car. Hemi's are finicky about the tune, but when they are set up right they will flat out pull.
Those heads flow so much and the valve design is created for maximum flow. Of course you can MAKE a wedge outrun a Hemi if you up the performance build and leave the Hemi alone. But, build for build, the Hemi will always make more power due to the valve layout and head flow. Example, if you start with stock engines and add intake-carb, cams of similar increases, headers, compression, etc...  the Hemi will make more power due to the design.
I have seen many wedge motor cars outrun Hemi cars at the track and on the street, but the wedges are built to a higher level of performance than the Hemis.
Anyway, my experience has always been:  all things being equal  --  the Hemis win the day...                    

[mopar12372]

   wich is why still to this day the HEMI is and will always be on top in TOP FUEL , FUNNY CAR , SUPERSTOCK !
   

[Topcat]

Anyway, my experience has always been:  all things being equal  --  the Hemis win the day...                   

Amen! 

[jimynick]

TC, I think that hemi's getting all dusty sitting there in your garage and I'd be willing to put it in my Challenger to keep it clean for ya!

[Topcat]

TC, I think that hemi's getting all dusty sitting there in your garage and I'd be willing to put it in my Challenger to keep it clean for ya!

It'll get fired up on a dyno once I have a paint day ready.

[Oldschool]

Ah Sledehammer my friend, I just KNEW it would be you that carried the wedge banner.  Thanks for the debate my friend...       

I never said that a wedge couldn't outrun a Hemi, it just doesn't happen very often  -- all things being equal. Congrats on smokin you one...   

By "equal" I am saying same cars with same set ups.
Equal from the engine stand point is simple. Stock for stock, both well tuned, equal traction etc.. the hemi wins a 1/4 mile drag race and top end.
IF you put headers on the wedge and not the Hemi, it might be a toss up, but that is not equal, the wedge has a bolt on mod. Put headers on the hemi also, the hemi wins.
IF you put a roller cam in the wedge, and leave the stock cam in the hemi, the hemi loses. BUT, put a similar spec'ed roller in the hemi, the hemi is back out front. That is what I mean by equal. If you do any mods to one, you must do the same mod to the other. Since the hemi makes more power in stock trim, it will continue to do so -- mod for mod.

Folks always want to bring up the subject of $$$. That is a factor  -- it always has been and always will be.
It was that way back in the day. If you bought a '70 Cuda with a slant six, it was base priced. Small block was more. Big block was even more. Hemi was the most  -- costwise and power wise.
It is still that way today. If you buy a base late model 6 cyl Challenger, it is the lowest price. If you want a 5.7 hemi, it costs more. If you want the SRT-8 with 425 HP Hemi, it costs the most.
More power = more money. That is why the hemi cost more back in the day, They made the most power.
I have been outrun buy wedge motor cars before, but they had way more done, performance wise, than I did, so they should have won....