Author Topic: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors  (Read 4054 times)

Offline ChallengerHK

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Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« on: November 22, 2010 - 02:45:59 PM »
I'm assuming that, if I can only do one, I'll get more bang for te buck from subframe connectors than from torque boxes. Is this a good assumption?


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Offline brads70

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010 - 05:45:23 PM »
Hummm good question! Only thing I can say is the subframe connector I made attaches to part of the rear torque box?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
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Offline mopardave

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010 - 07:47:36 PM »
i'd do both.  Yes you'll get a stiffer frame with the connectors, but the rear torque box helps the front spring hanger mount from twisting as well.
Mopar Dave
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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010 - 08:25:27 PM »
i'd do both.  Yes you'll get a stiffer frame with the connectors, but the rear torque box helps the front spring hanger mount from twisting as well.

Granted. But assuming that I'll be extremely lucky to raise the money to do only one, and that I'll have to sell parts to make that happen, and that I'll be lying on my back on what, if I'm lucky, will only be very cold ground and not snow to install them and I'm going to want to do that for as little time as I can get away with...subframe connectors or torque boxes?


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

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Offline brads70

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010 - 08:29:09 PM »
I'd buy the torque boxes first, them MAKE subframe conectors. I did, cost me $10!
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010 - 09:12:23 PM »
I'd buy the torque boxes first, them MAKE subframe conectors. I did, cost me $10!

I'm with Brad $10 and your good to go!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010 - 09:13:56 PM by BIGSHCLUNK »
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Offline mopardave

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010 - 08:02:55 AM »
Granted. But assuming that I'll be extremely lucky to raise the money to do only one, and that I'll have to sell parts to make that happen, and that I'll be lying on my back on what, if I'm lucky, will only be very cold ground and not snow to install them and I'm going to want to do that for as little time as I can get away with...subframe connectors or torque boxes?

start with the rear boxes then. All they really came out of the factory with, then make your own frame ties.
Mopar Dave
Rosevillemoparts.com

if I haven't replied to your post or PM email me direct    dradcliffe@mikeriehls.com




70 FK5 Challenger RT/SE
70 FC7 70 Road Runner - Sold
71 FM3 Challenger RT
71 Cuda (in process for restoration)
73 F8 Challenger
1990 XJ - sold
2000 Dakota Quad Cab
2010 Ram Crew Cab 2500 4wd - sold
2015 Ram Crew Cab 2500 4wd Black Out

Offline HP2

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2010 - 09:00:32 AM »
Never know anyone who's done a comparison. It isn't tough to do though. Maybe I'll dig up some instructions, post them up, and we can have members check for deflection between the two.

Offline brads70

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010 - 09:03:00 AM »
start with the rear boxes then. All they really came out of the factory with, then make your own frame ties.

 :iagree:  Great idea Dave! :2thumbs:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010 - 09:15:37 AM »
Never know anyone who's done a comparison. It isn't tough to do though. Maybe I'll dig up some instructions, post them up, and we can have members check for deflection between the two.

That would be way cool.


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

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Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010 - 08:07:33 AM »
Never know anyone who's done a comparison. It isn't tough to do though. Maybe I'll dig up some instructions, post them up, and we can have members check for deflection between the two.
Keep us informed, I have seen where a person made both torque boxes as well as the sub frame connectors but if you are doing on your back the torque boxes would be harder to work with if trying to make yourself.
Dave

Offline aris_unlimited

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010 - 08:11:42 AM »
I ended up getting the XV subframe connectors (pain in the rear to make them fit) and they said that all their test cars don't have the torque boxes, so they don't consider them really necessary. While I have problems with XV's work eithic and customer service, they seem to know their stuff when it comes to suspension and chassis stiffening.
Cuda is gone :(

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Offline HP2

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010 - 10:17:01 AM »
An advantage to torque boxes is that they tie the subframes into the rocker sills. The rockers are a very large structural member than runs the length of the passenger compartment and these pieces are much larger then sub frame connectors so they will tend to bend less.

However, one advantage to most sub-frame connectors is that they tie in or bisect the floor which then turns the floor pan into a giant shear plate, creating a larger structural member.

If you go way back in to the past, you'll notice most competition cars did not use the longitudal subframe connectors we are all familiar with, but instead used X members tieing all four corners of the cab together along with bisecting the floor and putting it in shear. The weld in aftermarket sub frame connectors we most familiar with were developed as a reasonably easy to install structural piece that would create the greatest amount of improvement for the least amount of cost and effort. That doesn't mean they produce the best amount of rigidity, just the best amount for the cost and effort. Torque boxes can be looked at in the same way only from an OEM manufacturers perspective. They are both bang for hte buck approaches.

Offline HP2

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2010 - 12:28:26 PM »
Here is a good in depth discussion about torsional rigidity along with ways to check.

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?55201-Torsional-rigidity-measuring-and-increasing

 

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Question re: torque boxes and frame connectors
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2010 - 03:03:12 PM »
Thanks


"She'll make point five past light speed. She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, and I've made a lot of special modifications myself."

- Han Solo, Star Wars

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