Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam

Author Topic: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam  (Read 1854 times)

Offline PlumCrazy73Cuda

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Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« on: January 02, 2011 - 11:37:22 AM »
Below are some pictures of the roof/quarter seam area on my 1973 Cuda. The car was originally a vinyl roof car but I am going to be painting it.
The car was dipped and then I had the shop weld in some patches. One of the patches was on the roof edge just above the roof/quarter seam and it appears that they may have melted some of the lead out of the seam when they were welding in the patch. There is a raised area which looks to be lead just below the gap in the seam shown in the pictures.
The other side of the car looks almost the same.
I am looking for some advice on the best way to fix this area.
I do not have any experience doing lead work.
Thanks
Greg




Offline IMNCARN82

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2011 - 12:10:15 PM »
If you don't use lead it will fail. I had to find out the hard way. 
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Offline RUSTY Cuda

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2011 - 12:24:32 PM »
Lead is not too hard to work with, eastwood sells a kit with everything you need cept the torch, simple plumbers accetalene torch will do(even a hand held propane or butane will get you by)
If it's lead that melted down to form that high area you can just heat it up & push it back up, you will probably still need more lead to fill in that gap.
The main thing is to use as little heat as possible, keep moving the torch increasing your distance from the work, just enough to keep the lead workable, don't worry about getting a little too much on, it grinds off real easy.
Getting it clean is probably the most important part, then getting the "butter"(cleaning flux) off is second.
Play with some on some scrap metal to get the hang of it, it aint rocket science! Rich.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2011 - 02:24:59 PM by RUSTY Cuda »

Offline dutch

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2011 - 12:49:29 PM »
use a good respirator when grinding/ sanding that stuff...
*** Bart ***

Offline Topcat

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2011 - 12:53:37 PM »

I am looking for some advice on the best way to fix this area.
I do not have any experience doing lead work.
Thanks
Greg


Neither did I and it takes a little time to learn but it's well worth it.


That looks like it would be pretty thick if you filled it with body filler. When body filler is thick, it'll expand at a different rate then the metal around it. This is referred to as telegraphing or the band aid effect.

For the best results doing leadwork, I recommend using a propane pencil tip for the torch. Use the thin lead bars like Eatwood sells. You don't need the flame up high. In fact a low adjustment is best. Heat the area gradually by moving the flame over the entire area in a moving circular pattern. Apply tinning paste. Let cool. Now do heat again over the area above, on, and below. The tinning paste should turn the metal to a chrome look where you plan to lead. Let it cool off again. Clean the area now with a watered down baking soda paste and let it dry. Wipe that off and clean with either a laquer thinner or better; a metal cleaner like Eatwood sells. Now it's ready to begin leadwork.

Re heat the area again in a large circular moving pattern. Figure 8's is what I was doing. After heating the metal up, you need to alternate at the same time to the lead bar heating it up. The goal is to get the lead bar to get to the consistency of soft butter; like butter that has sat out at room temp. With your wood paddle that was dipped in tallow and looks like a glazed donut; it's ready now to spread the lead on. Heat the metal, lay the heated bar section on the area and spread the lead on. This will be your main learning curve. Don't let it feel like your'e not doing it right. Just keep trying till you get the groove on working with the lead. Once the lead is to your liking, you'll need to file it off with an aggresive file. I recommend doing leadwork in a very well ventilated area, preferrably outside.

I suggest you look at videos on youtube regarding leadwork.
Resto Rick has a page on leadwork also.

From his website:

8. Follow by scrubbing with a paste made using baking soda and water. This step is to neutralize any remaining acid residue and further clean the surface.

9. The last step before soldering is to wipe the area down with a solvent such as Glasurit
360-4 Metal Cleaner or equivalent.

10. The entire area to be leaded should now have a shiny tin coating.

11. Here’s the part where it gets tricky! Apply heat evenly over a couple square inch
at a time until a solder bar can be melted by the metal. You don’t want to melt the
bar with the torch flame! The solder is applied by melting it into the panel much
like putting out a cigarette. Warm the panel, remove the heat and push the bar on.
This is repeated over the whole area until enough solder is applied to fill the area.


12. The last step is to re-warm the solder until it gets just to the “plastic” stage.
Too much heat and it will run to the floor; not enough and the paddle won’t move
the solder or it will crumble. The paddle has to be coated by melting wax in a
tub and sliding it into it. “In the day” oil was used, but the wax works much
better. In this step it’s important to heat the solder well enough so that while
spreading it, minimal air pockets form and that the coating all melts together.






This was my first attempt.
I re-did it a second time and it came out way better then once I improved my technique.


Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline wally426ci

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2011 - 04:16:54 PM »
 :popcorn:
{OOI====I====IOO}
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Offline PlumCrazy73Cuda

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2011 - 06:20:38 PM »
Thanks for the responses.
Eastwood has a couple of different lead/non-lead kits.
Has anyone tried the different ones? Any preference?
Any problems with compatibility between the factory lead and the lead-free?
Sounds like the lead-free one may be easier to work.

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-standard-lead-free-body-solder-kit-with-dvd.html
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-body-solder-kit-standard-with-dvd.html

Offline Topcat

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2011 - 06:29:38 PM »
Thanks for the responses.
Eastwood has a couple of different lead/non-lead kits.
Has anyone tried the different ones? Any preference?
Any problems with compatibility between the factory lead and the lead-free?
Sounds like the lead-free one may be easier to work.

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-standard-lead-free-body-solder-kit-with-dvd.html
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-body-solder-kit-standard-with-dvd.html


What it says:
The low melting temperature makes the 30/70 lead-based slightly easier to than our lead-free solder.
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline 72rtchallenger

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2011 - 07:15:24 PM »
What it says:
The low melting temperature makes the 30/70 lead-based slightly easier to than our lead-free solder.

going have to try that myself,,also found out the hard way
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Offline Topcat

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2011 - 07:42:09 PM »
Learn from my first learning mistakes.

What I was doing wrong when first starting....

Not heating the bar up enough prior.
Using 1 inch wide bars that really need a pencil torch flame to soften prior to applying.

http://s173.photobucket.com/albums/w55/topcatcuda/?action=view&current=100_3883.mp4



http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=45489.0
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline jimynick

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011 - 10:37:20 PM »
Plum crazy, be careful when you start with the heat when repairing that Frankenstein patch they did on your car. The solder area in the 1/4's of my Challenger were 8-10'' in height; they really laid it on these cars. Cleanliness is truly next to godliness when soldering. Fluxing would be second and heat control third. Use a slightly carborizing ( a wee bit extra acetylene) flame and don't be cheap with the flux, brush it on, carefully heat the bare steel and rub the solder bar on the tin when you think it's warm enough. it'll melt and run and you can wipe with a clean rag to tin the whole area as mentioned. by then you'll be getting an idea of how much heat is req'd and as was also said, the consistency of the bar should be like soft butter. When you dab it on the panel about 1-1 1/2" should come of onto your site. We used bees wax rather than tallow and heat it with your torch until running and wipe your paddle in it regularly to prevent sticking and burning. Take your time and you can do amazing things with solder. Good luck

Offline PlumCrazy73Cuda

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Re: Advice Needed on Fixing Roof/Quarter Seam
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011 - 10:48:18 PM »
jimynick, thanks for the additional tips. I'll take all the advice I can get on this.
I don't have have an acetylene torch but I do have a plumbers torch which is connected to a 10 pound cylinder. From what I have read it appears that it should do the job.