Advice on starting body work

[beekppr]

I'm anxious to get started on my 70 Challenger RT and could use some sound advice.

The car is rust free but it had a front end impact at some point in it's past. The cowl has small dents from the hood hinges gitting it. Someone replaced the front fenders and radiator support and also straightened out the badly wrinkled inner fender walls.

The radiator support was installed wrong and needs to be fixed and the inner fender walls need to be replaced. The fenders are dented up but they are original rust free items.

The frame rails do not appear damaged or bent but I want to be sure. I also plan to soda blast the car at some point before I build it back up.

This will be my first attempt at body work so I want to tackle it right.

My plan is as follows:

1) remove fenders and everything else bolted onto the front end. Leave engine and suspension.
2) Use spot weld cutter to get inner fender walls and radiator support off.
3) Remove dents on cowl and measure it in case it is tweaked
4) Car is driveable so I'd get want to get it to a frame shop and have them chk it and straighten it if necessary before doing any other work. If cowl is pushed up (I dont think it is) They can weld a tab on it and pull it as needed.
5) I am torn at this point if I should weld on new inner panels and radiator support or send it to the blaster first

What would be best? and...When I weld on new metal, I have to remove the black coating before welding so should I send the car off to blaster along with new metal to blast clean before welding it on?

When the car is painted, does the black coating get removed or is it just sanded and primed over?

Lastly, once car is blasted, do I need to put something on it to protect it while I begin the body work? I can throw some self etching primer on it but there will probably be tiny areas that need body work, particularly around the corners of the front and rear window.

My original plan was to leave it bare and work on one area at a time, priming and block sanding it as I go. I'm more concerned about protecting interior areas and places that would never be painted like inside of doors

[the_engineers]

Replacement panels specifically recommend leaving the EDP (black) primer in place.  As for blasting the car, have it immediately primed, or it will start to flash rust within a few days (or hours, depending on climate).

[jimynick]

Beekpr, measure twice, cut once. Don't cut the rad support out until you've had it measured, as you know, this is a unibody car and won't like your driving it after removing the support. If you're spot welding the new panels, you can usually go right through the e-coat, otherwise just grind the actual weld area. The e-coat gets sanded and prime/painted. As mentioned, immediately either epoxy coat or pickle (phosphate)the car once blasted. Use a decent quality epoxy if you go that route. Good luck!

[beekppr]

Thanks Jimynick.

I was going to use a trailer but I thought having it driveable would make it nice to get it on and off the trailer. Do you think it will be okay for that?

Also, the original radiator support was hacked off and the current radiator support welded over the top. Then they put a string of screws over it for good measure. It looks awful

Good to know about spot welding thru the ecoat. Thats what I will do.

As far as the epoxy primer, I heard that epoxy primers must be covered with urethane primers or color coat within 24 hours or the epoxy primer has to be sanded, which they said was a nightmare. Is this true? If so, maybe I will pickle it. What does this entail for me as far as work afterward?

Thanks for the info. - I  am off tomorrow and can't wait to get started.

[beekppr]

Dismantled the front end yesterday and discovered the frame rails may be slightly bent after all.

Before I do too much more, can the frame rack straighten a car well if the k frame, inner fender walls, and radiator support are in it or will the job be better if I remove it all?

My plan is to lift the car off the k frame sub assembly before the blaster but would it be better to do it now?

[jimynick]

Leave the car together to be straightened. There are control points in the Kframe that they'll usually use to check their progress. Epoxy is like any other surface and needs to be scuffed to provide adhesion, you're not trying to get a finished substrate for final painting on it and it'll keep the rusties at bay. Pickling is usually done in a tank and isn't as common as epoxy. Just grind it away wherever you have to weld. Get the car straight before anything else. You'll thank me for that later. Photos are cheap and handy and you'll wish you'd taken more-don't ask me how I know that.

[elitecustombody]

Pull motor and tranny out before taking the car to a frame shop for pulling the front end,it will give a good access

[Topcat]

Pull motor and tranny out before taking the car to a frame shop for pulling the front end,it will give a good access

While this is true you get more access; it also changes the actual load the entire unibody is having.

Unibodies have alot of flex. I know this from experience when I first set up my car to do the frame connectors and saw that the unibody could flex quite a bit.

Even if it's just the front frame rails, everything works together as one. So my vote is to get any straightening done with the drivetrain still in place.

[jimynick]

  What the man said.

[elitecustombody]

I wonder if either of you actually do this for a living, I know I'm not the oldest bodyman here,but I've been doing this for 20+ years

[Topcat]

As far as you taking your car to get blasted later on...

Do you have a good compressor with high PSI/CFM?
Do you have an open area to blast it yourself as an option?
Can you do the blasting without neighbors nearby freaking out?
Are you young enough to have the stamina? Because it is rigorous work.
Can you deal with being extremely dirty for long periods at a time?

If you answered yes to these questions, then you may qualify to do it yourself.
Why do it yourself? A good amount of money saved and knowing you did it to your standards. However it you have 1-2 grand to throw at your car for it, then send it out.

I did the complete underside for less than 200 bucks. But my lower back paid the price for 3 days after. It was a very dirty job I must tell you. If your car isn't a rust bucket on the outside, strip it by hand with paint remover and sanding. I just don't feel that all cars must be totally blasted entirely unless they are a real rust bucket from the getgo. Thats a call only you can decide on.

One last thing... don't let the paranoids tell you you'll warp it.
There are ways to prevent warping if you do it right.

[Topcat]

I wonder if either of you actually do this for a living, I know I'm not the oldest bodyman here,but I've been doing this for 20+ years

I just am not in the mood to get into a pissing match over this Stephan.
You may think its better out. I don't. Let's end it there.

[beekppr]

I'd actually like to do it myself. I made a decision on this car to do as much of my own work as is possible so that I could actually have the pride of saying I did it. I am not afraid of making mistakes and having to do stuff over. I know a few people who can help me with some things but I don't want to abuse it either.

Unfortunately, I live in a neighborhood where I probably could not get away with it. Neighbors put up with alot from me already.

I found a place that will do it for $600 and I know another place that did a friend's car for $1000.

I was not sure if blasting was the best option or not. My car has light surface rust on the roof and moderate stuff in the trunk and some inside. The quarters, doors, and everywhere else are flawless. I found a tiny bit of thin bondo here and there but not in places where rust is normally found. I thought about chemical stripper but I figured the mess might make me regret it.

My biggest reason for blaster option is that I can see light rust in places that cannot normally be reached such as in the inside of the trunk lid (seen through the holes at the bottom edge) and around the inside bracing of the top. I thought blaster was the best but I am always open to ideas.

I'd really like this car to come out perfect.

[Topcat]

If you do send it out and they charge by the hour; one thing you can do to lower the cost some is to just strip just the paint off and leave all the primer on. Then send it out ASAP. Primer blasts off way faster than when its paint and primer to remove.

[beekppr]

That makes sense. I have a guy straightening the frame of my 64 Vette right now (I always seem to find the cars with frame issues). Once I pick it up, I can hopefully replace it with the Challenger and get that dealt with.

Once back, I guess I will strip paint and whatever bondo I find, drop out the k-frame with engine, suspension etc as one unit, then take it to the blaster. Dutch Brothers makes this cool kit that bolts in place of your k-frame. It has pivoting wheels that lock and the kit also has a set of wheels for the back end so I can gut the car to a shell.

It seems I have time to talk to the guy and verify prices. I like your idea about doing some myself if I can save money on stripping.

After that, I suppose I need to shoot it down with epoxy primer, then start replacing the front end sheet metal.

After the frame shop and after car is gutted to a shell, should I leave the radiator support and inner fenders for extra support or is it structurally safe to move the car around without all that sheet metal as long as the weight of the engine and suspension are gone?

Ideally, it would be nice to blast the car without it but I don't want to create any new problems for myself.