Author Topic: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money? (Read 13856 times)

torqueaddict · « **on:** January 24, 2011 - 09:30:29 PM »

Guys I am about to get back into working on my engine and I have a good question, is EFI worth the investment in terms of time money and hassle to get it done? My project is a 440 512 stroker with stealth heads. Let me know what you guys think.

Cooter · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2011 - 09:52:22 PM »

Money? In a word? NO....(Store bought units)
Time and effort? in a word? NO....(Home built units)
Ease of installation? In a word? NO....(Home built units)

Looking all trick come cruise night? In a word? YES...

Able to be tuned without fuel spilling everywhere? In a word? YES...

Dollar for Dollar, the carburetor has Fuel Inj. beat hands down....You can buy the entire top end of the engine for what some want for plug and play system that will "Only" support up to 500 HP...

PS: I'm working on a "poor mans" Fuel inj. system right now for the 440 STREET and mostly stock engines that will deliver what all else claims for about $500.00 using Ford parts.(LONG Project)..Will it be trick? NO...Will it outrun that new FAST system? NO..Is it STILL Fuel Inj.? YES...

torqueaddict · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2011 - 12:19:45 AM »

So its really not worth it huh, it just feels like from a cool standpoint EFI would really make you stand out. From a nuts and bolts stand point tho I guess what your saying is the cast isnt worth the tokens. What kind of improved performance would you really see anyway?

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2011 - 06:18:01 AM »

I would disagree , from a price standpoint it is not competative but otherwise it si definatly worth it , engine life is increased with better mixing of fuel / no fuel wash & increased wear , you can run massive cams with no loss of idle quality as the correct amount of fuel is deliver right behind the valve all the time instead of depending on low vacuum to mix your fuel in the carb , HP & milage increase along with drivability . No downside other than the cost

Roppa440 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2011 - 06:41:25 AM »

If you can afford it - go for it. Sequential injection rather than batch will work wonders.

http://www.fastmanefi.com/photos.htm

Cooter · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2011 - 06:43:45 AM »

IF you have a Fuel Inj. unit on a engine with a huge cam, it is gonna load the cylinders down just like a carb would..The ONLY benefit I can see is the fact it will idle cold..Not very well mind you, but it will...

A buddy has the stock injection on his Mercury Cougar with a 331 and a huge roller cam...Does it run? Yeah, does it burn rich as hell idling? Yeah...Does it get sh**y fuel mileage? Yeah...Why does he run F.I. over a carb? Cause it came stock and he likes being able to fire up and run when cold...Would he install it if it wasn't F.I. from factory? Prolly not...

thedodgeboys · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2011 - 08:22:00 AM »

Quote from: Cooter on January 25, 2011 - 06:43:45 AM

IF you have a Fuel Inj. unit on a engine with a huge cam, it is gonna load the cylinders down just like a carb would..
A buddy has the stock injection on his Mercury Cougar with a 331 and a huge roller cam...Does it run? Yeah, does it burn rich as hell idling? Yeah...Does it get sh**y fuel mileage?

In his case yes it does because of the word STOCK it needs tuned. Factory or stock efi docent adapt or learn if you go changing to radical cams they are programed to run with a set of values. Now if he were to use a tunable efi he could adjust the air fuel ratio at idle and improve his gas milage. I believe it would run faster if properly tuned.

One more thing an efi won't dry out like a carburetor does when sitting undriven like a lot of our cars do.

HP2 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2011 - 09:33:31 AM »

No first hand experience, but I'd say it depends.

Will it get considerably better mileage or make large amounts of power over a well tuned carb, no. It is better, yes, but not by leaps and bounds. If you get an extra 2-3 mpg and another 10 hp out of it, how long will it take to recoup the $1000+ in gas savings, longer than you'll own the car. However, because of its fine tuning, feedback loop method, it can make more radical set ups easier to live with, as it will for any combination, and once you get past the set up and mapping, makes for easy living on more docile set ups.

Cooter · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2011 - 12:40:35 PM »

Quote from: thedodgeboys on January 25, 2011 - 08:22:00 AM

In his case yes it does because of the word STOCK it needs tuned. Factory or stock efi docent adapt or learn if you go changing to radical cams they are programed to run with a set of values. Now if he were to use a tunable efi he could adjust the air fuel ratio at idle and improve his gas milage. I believe it would run faster if properly tuned.

I never said he didn't "tune" the stock set up to perform better..He is a wiz at the Fuel Inj., but he's like eveyrbody else, and is broke as well and doesn't have the money for a $5000.00 set up.. and will be helping myself learn and adapt a Ford unit to a Mopar 440...He's played with everything that doesn't cost huge money..(Tweaked Sensors, Fooled some with resistors, etc.)..Does it run and run well? Hell yeah, but it still burns gas like no tomorrow...It loads the road up with soot every single time he stands on it...Does it run like hell when he stands on it? Hell yes, but I have a 440 that prolly gets about the same mileage witha Holley 750 DP carb on it....

acudanut · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2011 - 12:43:09 PM »

NO

brads70 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2011 - 02:12:18 PM »

Quote from: acudanut on January 25, 2011 - 12:43:09 PM

NO

you sure are the "wordy" sort huh?

Giggling here....

the_engineers · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2011 - 04:58:35 PM »

Quote from: Cooter on January 25, 2011 - 12:40:35 PM

I never said he didn't "tune" the stock set up to perform better..It loads the road up with soot every single time he stands on it

Sounds like he's made changes beyond what's he's capable of tuning or fooling the system into. I'd bet that if he bought a professionally programmed chip, he'd offset the cost of the chip with the incrementally better fuel economy that he'll get in short order.

As far as EFI goes, the biggest draw towards injection is exactly what Chryco indicated...tunability and more efficient delivery of fuel.

Not to say that individual results won't vary

thedodgeboys · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2011 - 06:02:16 PM »

Quote from: Cooter on January 25, 2011 - 12:40:35 PM

...It loads the road up with soot every single time he stands on it...Does it run like hell when he stands on it? Hell yes, but I have a 440 that prolly gets about the same mileage witha Holley 750 DP carb on it....

if its doing that its not tuned correctly.

I am no EFI expert I am running an AEM box on my Hemi and it works great.

my thought would be tackle it run the EFI enjoy it for what it is, you can always go back to a carb.

torqueaddict · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2011 - 07:41:35 PM »

I guess what I am really trying to find out what are some realistic expectations in terms of better gas mileage and performance improvements. And also when a block os assembled with the heads and pistons and all, how long can it stay like that without being installed?

dodj · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2011 - 08:53:30 PM »

Depends on how much $ you have to play with. A 950 proform for about $600. I think a FAST EFI will go for about $1800. Your 512 will haul a$$ with either. You'll get more ooohs and aahhhhs with the efi.

Author Topic: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money? (Read 13856 times)

torqueaddict

EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

Cooter

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

torqueaddict

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

Chryco Psycho

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

Roppa440

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

Cooter

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

thedodgeboys

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

HP2

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

Cooter

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

acudanut

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

brads70

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

the_engineers

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

thedodgeboys

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

torqueaddict

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?

dodj

Re: EFI is it really worth the trouble and the money?