Chrysler Kit car info ( circle track racer )

[brads70]

I've been reaserching the Chrysler kit car for info and thought I'd start a thread about it. Found a great link with drawings and lots of great info! 
http://public.fotki.com/predmond/assorted_race_cars/chrysler-kit-car-catalog/

[aris_unlimited]

Kind of looks like it would have competed with the IMSA Monza's back in the day (monza popped into my head because I have had a couple).

[brads70]

I'm told short tracks eventually band them as they dominated . I'm toying the idea of building one similar with a buddy of mine. New Challenger body.  Around here GM chassis are all that's built in the Street stock divisions. Just gathering parts now. My C-Body spindle project is what got me researching this. Funny how one thing leads to another huh?
This picture makes my mind work in overtime too!

[HP2]

I've got that catalog. It is cool to look at everything that was available over the counter back then.

I'd really be interested in getting hold of any of the TSB for the program, #110, 115, 130, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 144, 145, 146, 148. Or the assembly manual which has all the details of assembly, layout, and specifications. I've been looking causally for a decade and not found anyone willing to part with them.

The holy grail of kit car stuff is the full size blueprint layout that came with the car when you bought one. They are a full size, 1:1 ratio with all the specifics that Larry Rathgrab and Co put down to assist with construction, layout, and repair, along with part numbers, interchange, and models where bargain parts could be found.

Sparks Bros racing in Long Island used to reproduce kit car chassis back in the 90s. I remember seeing their ads in the mopar mags. They offered gun drilled t-bars, tubular sway bar kits, custom rate leafs, special shocks, and all the cool stuff we think is new these days. I seriously thought about buying one of their chassis' back when I was circle jerking, but after wading up one too many cars with my local ya hoos, decided to go drag racing instead.

If you haven't picked one up yet, the Mopar Oval Track Racing book is a must have for all the historical info on the oval track program.

I thought about building one just this past winter when I scored a really good price on a 72 Challenger. However, after looking deeper in to the car and figuring out all the parts I'd need to replace just to get rid of the rust and have a good starting point, I decided against it. Additionally,  it is nearly impossible to get a torsion bars bigger than 1.22, and even those are hard to find. I don't know what spring rates those chevy boys are running at your track, but around here they are using 1000-1200# springs up front. That is the equivilent of a 1.30 to 1.45 t-bar, which just don't exist any more. At that point, you just can't make a stock chassis mopar competitive on a banked oval. Now a road race car may be another deal, but if you were really serious about that, then the liberalness of the rules really make it a no brainer to use coil overs anyway. If you went the coil over route, a new Dynacorn body would be perfect for that. Buy a couple to have a back up, and man you could have some fun!

I trust you've browsed these links?
http://mopardealer.com/chrysler.htm
http://www.race-cardrivers.com/Chrysler%20Petty%20Kit%20Car%20IMSA%20Volare%20Road%20Runner%20SCCA%20Trans%20Am.htm

Kind of looks like it would have competed with the IMSA Monza's back in the day (monza popped into my head because I have had a couple).

Yup, there were versions that ran in IMSA. Check out the links above.

[brads70]

HP2 ya I have seen those links before. Cool stuff!    I've been talking with a local chassis builder and a racer that drives a 71 Charger about building a new Challenger. They are both pretty pumped about building one. I figure all I need is a K-frame and the shock tower/upper control arm mounts and we will fab the rest. Ya the 1000 pound spring rates are normal for the track I work at but the latest craze is the big sway bar soft spring rate set up which I think we could pull off with what's available now. The racer I mentioned has a 4 car garage full of old dodge stock car parts, so he is pretty pumped about it. My wife's cousin works for a plant that makes the Challenger/Charger/Magnum front and rear ends as she said how many do you want we shred lots of them everyday that are defective. Fenders and quarters are cheap new so all we need is a roof skin  and a hood.  There are enough wrecked Challengers around now to get that from I would think. Not many are brave/stupid ?/ knowledgeable enough to build a Dodge around here and I like to be different. I'd take great pride in showing up the Chevy crowd!

I guess this post should be in the "racer" section so Mods feel free to move it there if you think that's best?

[autoxcuda]

...
I thought about building one just this past winter when I scored a really good price on a 72 Challenger. However, after looking deeper in to the car and figuring out all the parts I'd need to replace just to get rid of the rust and have a good starting point, I decided against it. Additionally,  it is nearly impossible to get a torsion bars bigger than 1.22, and even those are hard to find. I don't know what spring rates those chevy boys are running at your track, but around here they are using 1000-1200# springs up front. That is the equivilent of a 1.30 to 1.45 t-bar, which just don't exist any more. At that point, you just can't make a stock chassis mopar competitive on a banked oval. Now a road race car may be another deal, but if you were really serious about that, then the liberalness of the rules really make it a no brainer to use coil overs anyway. If you went the coil over route, a new Dynacorn body would be perfect for that. Buy a couple to have a back up, and man you could have some fun!

...

I think a 100% out of the box Kit car chassis would not be competitive in a tube chassis class or stock front clip class (Late Model is what they are typically called). Most tracks allow for a limited amount of non stock racer bolt on parts. Problem is every track has different rules. And the subtle differences can make a big difference.

1000 lbs front springs are long gone at our track (and most other I would think). Everyone is doing the soft spring, big tie down shock, big sway bar deal. Nowdays we're talking about 300 lbs or lighter springs, 1 1/2" sway bars, and shocks that take a person standing on the control arms to extend! Our class has morphed into a 100% fabricated chassis. But a few years ago we had Camaro front clips and rear leaf springs.

Problem is RWD stock front clips are getting hard to come by. I remember Harris Racing in Iowa have to import front clips from junkyards down south. And they were getting harder and harder to find. And that was 10 years ago!

[brads70]

  sounds like much the same as here.
 I was thinking this for the Street stock class not late model or limited late model type class.  99% use metric G-Body frames/chassis and put a different body on them. EG. to build a Camaro all you need is the front clip and square tube the rest, so that's why I was thinking all I would need is a K-frame and shock tower/upper control arm mounts and square tube the rest? I have little desire to drive it...I just want to build it.

[autoxcuda]

sounds like much the same as here.
 I was thinking this for the Street stock class not late model or limited late model type class.  99% use metric G-Body frames/chassis and put a different body on them. EG. to build a Camaro all you need is the front clip and square tube the rest, so that's why I was thinking all I would need is a K-frame and shock tower/upper control arm mounts and square tube the rest? I have little desire to drive it...I just want to build it.

I would think a kit car is a little too fabricated for a street stock class?

Does your street stock class just use a stock front clip and the rest fabricated?

[brads70]

I would think a kit car is a little too fabricated for a street stock class?

Does your street stock class just use a stock front clip and the rest fabricated?

If it's a Camaro yes all you need is a stock front clip but you have to run a Camaro body then if you want to switch to a different body you have to run a G-body Metric chassis. So I figure if a Camaro can...so can a Dodge!  I think it would be a fair fight?

( I'm also the head tech inspector for over 20 years now!    )
http://www.barriespeedway.com/

I had a hand in this car (#14 ) years ago but he blew up the motor and went broke. Those " hockey stick" torsion bar cars are hard to set up we found. Straight bar set up would me much easier with what's available now!
http://www.firmfeel.com/racecars2.htm

[autoxcuda]

If it's a Camaro yes all you need is a stock front clip but you have to run a Camaro body then if you want to switch to a different body you have to run a G-body Metric chassis. So I figure if a Camaro can...so can a Dodge!  I think it would be a fair fight?

( I'm also the head tech inspector for over 20 years now!    )
http://www.barriespeedway.com/

I had a hand in this car (#14 ) years ago but he blew up the motor and went broke. Those " hockey stick" torsion bar cars are hard to set up we found. Straight bar set up would me much easier with what's available now!
http://www.firmfeel.com/racecars2.htm

When did you guys go to crate engines? I think we did about 6-7 years ago in our late model class. Super Late just starting going to that last year. The Super Lates are dying out because of the money. 15 car fields or less. Pretty sparce on a 1/2 track that's wide. Most those super late teams left have 18 wheeler haulers for one team.

www.irwindalespeedway.com

Just quickly looking at your Late Model rules, that seem very close to ours. You allow stock and fab front clips, 3 link and leafs with weight breaks.

[brads70]

When did you guys go to crate engines? I think we did about 6-7 years ago in our late model class. Super Late just starting going to that last year. The Super Lates are dying out because of the money. 15 car fields or less. Pretty sparce on a 1/2 track that's wide. Most those super late teams left have 18 wheeler haulers for one team.

www.irwindalespeedway.com

Just quickly looking at your Late Model rules, that seem very close to ours. You allow stock and fab front clips, 3 link and leafs with weight breaks.

We went to crate engines in late model ( limited ?) about the same time as you. The idea was good but there are lots of places cheating them up now. In my town we have 2 race tracks and the other track was/is really bad at enforcing rules so things quickly got out of hand. We have about the same car count in late models there are about 35 cars between the 2 tracks so it's a constant fight over them. I've been around long enough to see the "cycle" meaning about every 10 years they get stupid with rules and go broke and fold , then they start up again as a "Challenger" type car ( cheap) and away it goes again. Gets frustrating at times. Speedways keep getting new owners every 3-5 years and "new" idea's etc..... make rules tough to keep from changing. Dodge engines with the same rules as Chevy's make lots more power  but the chassis have always been the weak points, but I'd like to take a crack at it and see.... ?

[Moparal]

There's a complete Kit car here in my town forsale local. I think its like a volarie or something.  Knowbody around here is interested in it.

[brads70]

There's a complete Kit car here in my town forsale local. I think its like a volarie or something.  Knowbody around here is interested in it.

What is he asking for it? Can you get any pictures? 

[Moparal]

I can't quite remember, but 6k keeps coming to mind. I think it has engine and all, but everything would need to be looked at and gone through of course,  To bad I fly out to Iowa on Sunday morning huh   Gone to work. The car has been put up in storage a while now. It's not going anywhere

[brads70]

I'll pass that on to my buddy Alan. Thanks!
A few pictures from the link I posted.....
Notice the center link has the tie rod ends turned up 90 degs, I assume to help with bumpsteer. Spindles I understand were 1973 C-Body. Also notice the rebuild able lower ball joints ( different pin lengths? like modern Howe ball joints)