potential job change needs some opinions

[barracuda7199]

Rayonier is the name it is in jesup GA. i am 100% vested in my 401k. i guess i was sugarcoating the new opportunity this is why i started this thread to get some real world advice from people who have been there and are older and wiser than I. there 8hr schedule out there is not very good my 12 hr shifts are great to me. i do a lot of maintenance and help with all the big maintenance jobs i am there for. i am a very hands on person not scared to get dirty and i strive for knowledge i want to learn everything i can!! there isnt a job in the plant i cant do and do it right as well. counting my temp work i did i have 9 years in there. when rayonier owned us i was a temp for a year and a half i was the only temp there. rayonier laid me off then so i went to work at the jail as a detention officer(i don't recommend that job!). after 5 months doing that rayonier came calling and offer me a full time job i started at 18.50 an hour in june of 2004. we have grown as a company alot but the new management doesn't treat us right to me when i would ask one of the vice presidents about a raise for the last five years i was told i was lucky to have a job and he would chuckle! doesn't take much of this to get under your skin when u are the corner stone and the man right under the supervisor on ur shift. a lot of us believe the only reason we got a raise was because several of us have expressed interest in leaving for the pulp mill. i have been cheated out of several dollars worth of deserved raise in the last 5 years. they did give me a dollar on the hour just last week which is the highest raise on my shift so i know i have some value. thanks for the advice and feel free to keep it coming! i trust yall and value your thoughts on this thank you again!

[Road_Runner]

I agree with 71Chally, its human nature to think the 'grass is greener' at a new opportunity, and I would follow the other excellent advice above and make as honest comparsion as possbible before I would give up a job where I feel I have at least some security right now.  Saying that, you know what you need to support your family and if your current job isn't cutting it then you have to to what you have to do and hope for the best.  I've turned down higher paying positions a couple of times in my career and each time I was way glad I did as things turned out.  I've also worked for 8 companies over the last 32 years so I obviously made moves when they were the right thing to do at the time.  Go to the interview and go with your gut, its worked for  me.

Later, Jim

[whitesatinmopar]

Tough choice, we all work (ed) for basically one reason, a pay check. That being said the next important thing about a job is if you like what you are doing. Yes other things naturally come into the equation like how you are treated and sense of security. And unless you work for some major company like GE (who dosen't have to pay any taxes this year  ) any company can possibly be bought and eventunately sold again or clossed. I think you get the message about your 401K.............you will end up with about 60% of what you got invested, perhaps less, just depends on your particular program. If you change jobs roll it over into an IRA, if the mill has a 401 program maybe you can then move the money into that program? Don't know if that would be possible or not. I wouldn't think changing jobs would have any more than a two-three week period between pays and a 40% loss in 401 money is a very high "interest" to pay, a short term equaity (sp?) loan could tie you over at a lot less overall expense. Hope you make the right decision and feel good about it too, good luck. Hey, it's nice to have options, many others don't.

[Barracudadan]

What's the name of the pulp mill and where is it?   Do not use the 401k as others have stated.  Pulp mills and paper mills have been being bought out hand over fist by bigger companies then being shut down. Only the higher up have an idea if this is going to happen where you are intending to work.  I kinda know this from working in pulp and paper mills all around the USA. Seen a bunch get bought and shut down when everyone thought all was good for them.  Consider where you are at now and how long you have been there.  We are in scarey times in the economy.  A 10k cut in pay may not be a good ideal for you right now.

  I know a few sheet metal workers in my Union that live in Maine where the paper mills closed a few years ago these guys have to travel down to my neck of the woods "Southeastern Mass" or anywhere else for that matter just to find work. They stay in hotels all week and then drive back to Maine for the weekends. I don`t know how they make ends meet. Work has been scarce here too I have not seen any all year!Like many have said Do not touch your 401 K!!!When you reach retirement age you will want it there for you trust me on this. You don`t want to end up as someone working into there 70`s and beyond cause they can`t afford to retire!

[wiiildcat]

It's been a while since I was in a union. Not saying this is even a factor but I seem to recall our shop would hire people, work them till it was time {think it was 90 days also} to bring them in to the union then lay them off, and repeat the cycle. Dont know if this stuff still goes on or not. I made the mistake of taking my 401k when my first son was born premature and lost half of it, stay away from it if you can. Good luck what ever you decide.

[Road_Runner]

I worked a Teamsters dock back in college and between that experience and my tenure at an airline that was put into bankrupcy thanks to the pilot's union I'm not particularly fond of them.  You mentioned all the possibility for future advancement at the mill, but you do realize in union shop almost all advancement is going to be based / offered on a seniority basis only.  So as low man on the seniority list you're going to have to wait for all current employees to have a shot at advancement first.  If you were talking about automatic step increases that are in the union contract that would be a different matter, but I for one have always been happy that my future advancement was based on the quality of my work, not my position in line.  Just one thing to think about when making up your mind.  Again, good luck and all the best to you and your family.

Later, Jim

[barracuda7199]

I worked a Teamsters dock back in college and between that experience and my tenure at an airline that was put into bankrupcy thanks to the pilot's union I'm not particularly fond of them.  You mentioned all the possibility for future advancement at the mill, but you do realize in union shop almost all advancement is going to be based / offered on a seniority basis only.  So as low man on the seniority list you're going to have to wait for all current employees to have a shot at advancement first.  If you were talking about automatic step increases that are in the union contract that would be a different matter, but I for one have always been happy that my future advancement was based on the quality of my work, not my position in line.  Just one thing to think about when making up your mind.  Again, good luck and all the best to you and your family.

Later,

i agree with u i am not a big fan of unions either. i think job performance means more than seniority based system. a union will keep a lazy man workin thats a fact! i dont need a union to protect my job due to my lack of performance! i don't have any lack of performance in me!

[MEK-Dangerfield]

i agree with u i am not a big fan of unions either. i think job performance means more than seniority based system. a union will keep a lazy man workin thats a fact! i dont need a union to protect my job due to my lack of performance! i don't have any lack of performance in me!

Don't get me started!!

I'm in a union, but from what I see, your seniority is the only thing that matters. If you are inept and miss time, they fight for you. If you are someone like myself and come to work and bust your butt...They don't even know I exist. I can't get a raise until the two dead beats ahead of me on the seniority list get raises. This is one case where I can understand why I won't get a raise. I'm being punished for the sins of those dead beats.   

[Barracudadan]

Say what you will about unions I know I wont change anybodys opinion on them,but since I joined my union over 10 years ago my salary has more than doubled compared to my last non-union shop. I have excellent health insurance and a pension and annuity things I never had before,but most importantly I am able to provide a decent living for my family.
I work in construction and I can honestly say I work harder at union shops compared to my non-union days.Plus I feel the quality of my work is better due to the help of a few members who know my trade inside and out and showed me how to work more efficiently and improve myself I owe a lot to them.
As far as slackers go I have seen plenty get sent down the road there is just no room for someone like that. On big projects yeah you will get your bad apples since they just need so much manpower 50 -100 guys or more, a few are gonna be slugs thats just the way it is it makes no difference if there in a union or not that`s just life not a union thing!  Maybe it`s different in a mill environment but on a construction site there really is no seniority you work for the foreman running the job if he`s happy with your work you keep your job. Yes we take care of the old-timers they still gotta work and no one expects them to do the heavy lifting. Someday were all going to be old and hopefully the younger generation will help us when we get up in years. I`m done with my rant now!

[Moparal]

I have been to your plant before. You may have seen me resurfacing your big rotary units.  Phillips Kiln Service.

[1ownr]

My husband is a Teamster truck driver, if you think a Union will protect you, think again. Last year all the drivers were been handed a 15% pay cut and the company is not paying into the Pension. Doesn't matter if a person is 10% or 110% or where you are on the "list". Job security is becoming an "Urban Legend".

judy   
 

[barracuda7199]

I have been to your plant before. You may have seen me resurfacing your big rotary units.  Phillips Kiln Service.

cool if u make it back this way hit me up! i live about 1 maybe 2 miles from the mill. there is alot of cool mopars around here u could checkout. but only 1 71 cuda!