Author Topic: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?  (Read 12561 times)

Offline autoxcuda

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2011 - 03:37:39 AM »
Interesting, wasn't necessarily planning on changing spindles but I bookmarked your thread and will read through it with interest.  Looking at my mix of possible parts, 1" tbars, 1 1/8" front & 7/8" rear Hellwig sway bars, Mopar xhd rear springs & either Edelbrock or Bilstein shocks (will probably try the Ede's first since I already have them). You see any problems so far?  If I need frame connectors I would be inclined to make my own or go with the XV's to keep them from hanging too low.  Not sure about control arm changes, etc. unless Im still not satisfied.

Thanks, Jim

What parts do you allready have?

I'd go Hotchkis subframe connectors before XV. The XV's are like the US tool ones with the cutouts for the profile of the floor. That seems to never work out and if the profile is a little off, it's a total PITA. The Hotchkis ones for E-bodies bolt right to the from spring hanger and thats were the load is being directly applied. They also don't fit low.

There's a guy with an A-body with stock front torsion bars and big front/rear sway bars that had Edelbrock shocks and didn't like the harshness at all. He switched to stocker Monroes and loves it. That could be a lot of personal preference. It would be really neat to had put Hotchkis Bilsteins shocks to see how that compared in that particular setup. 

The Hotchkis Leafs are totally different than the XHD Mopar, or JR Spring, or ESPO stocker stuff. They have two supporting leaves under the front spring eye to resist wrap up. AND they have a OVER the front spring eye supporting leaf to resist axle tramping and hopping under braking. That's a big deal. They also weigh less than stock springs.

If you want to curb you budget, you can put the Moog 7103 offset upper control arm bushings and get 3-5 degrees of postive caster. And run poly strut bushings.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2011 - 04:03:47 AM by autoxcuda »
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Offline autoxcuda

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2011 - 03:57:13 AM »
Video of Hotchkis front suspension stuff in action at Willow Spring big track. Up to about 125-130 mph. Need better brakes and tires to get more mph by getting of corners better and not braking as early.



Spring Fling XXX
April 22 & 23 2016

at Woodley Park Van Nuys, CA.
Special 30th Anniversary Event!
600+ Mopars, 300+ swappers,  50+ manf. midways.
Thrus: Mopar Track Day at Willow Springs Raceway
Fri: Caravan & Cruise
Sat: Mopar Cruise-In

Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2011 - 08:00:53 AM »
What parts do you allready have?

I'd go Hotchkis subframe connectors before XV. The XV's are like the US tool ones with the cutouts for the profile of the floor. That seems to never work out and if the profile is a little off, it's a total PITA. The Hotchkis ones for E-bodies bolt right to the from spring hanger and thats were the load is being directly applied. They also don't fit low.

There's a guy with an A-body with stock front torsion bars and big front/rear sway bars that had Edelbrock shocks and didn't like the harshness at all. He switched to stocker Monroes and loves it. That could be a lot of personal preference. It would be really neat to had put Hotchkis Bilsteins shocks to see how that compared in that particular setup. 

The Hotchkis Leafs are totally different than the XHD Mopar, or JR Spring, or ESPO stocker stuff. They have two supporting leaves under the front spring eye to resist wrap up. AND they have a OVER the front spring eye supporting leaf to resist axle tramping and hopping under braking. That's a big deal. They also weigh less than stock springs.

If you want to curb you budget, you can put the Moog 7103 offset upper control arm bushings and get 3-5 degrees of postive caster. And run poly strut bushings.

 :iagree:
Good advice, If I had it to do over again I would have went with the Hotchkis rear springs. I had just bought new rear springs from ESPO. The Hotchkis design looks better to me, the only thing I don't like is they lower the rear 1" over stock.  I liked the look of 1" taller than stock. To me E-Body's at stock ride height look like they are dragging their bum.  :lol:  It's always a trade off.... :grinyes:
I started with stock replacement jobber supplied shocks... the difference between them and the Bilsteins is night and day! You get to benifit from my mistake? Just get the RCD Bilsteins if your budget allows?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline CID440

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2011 - 11:39:55 AM »
Hotchkis connectors and dont know what headers (maybe hooker or Hedman dunno). Only drags on speed bumps and other things three inches off the ground.

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2011 - 10:22:24 PM »
Video of Hotchkis front suspension stuff in action at Willow Spring big track. Up to about 125-130 mph. Need better brakes and tires to get more mph by getting of corners better and not braking as early.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je5oeamQ_uw


Wow, am I the only one or is that video disorienting!  I'm not sure why but it messed with me to watch that.  It was cool though, suspension very stable and neat to see the tires flexing in the corners.  I'm getting more & more interested in the Hotchkis stuff but I'll have to do it a little along if I go that route, can't do the whole $3k at once right now.

Later, Jim

Thanks, Jim
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Offline Road_Runner

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2011 - 10:59:48 PM »
What parts do you allready have?

I've got a hodge podge of parts, 1 1/8" front Hellwig sway bar, Edelbrock shocks, lower control arms with sway bar mounts and also have original standard front & rear E body sway bars.  None of this is installed right now, and I know I need rear spring bushings and was planning on starting on the back end soon when I bought the xhd rear springs.  Now I'm not so sure.  I really like the idea of a tried & true setup so I may decide to go with the Hotchkis F & R sway bars & rear springs as phase one this summer and then go from there.  Thanks for all the input, its given me what I need to think this through.

Later, Jim

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1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black

Offline autoxcuda

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2011 - 12:48:26 AM »
I've got a hodge podge of parts, 1 1/8" front Hellwig sway bar, Edelbrock shocks, lower control arms with sway bar mounts and also have original standard front & rear E body sway bars.  None of this is installed right now, and I know I need rear spring bushings and was planning on starting on the back end soon when I bought the xhd rear springs.  Now I'm not so sure.  I really like the idea of a tried & true setup so I may decide to go with the Hotchkis F & R sway bars & rear springs as phase one this summer and then go from there.  Thanks for all the input, its given me what I need to think this through.

Later, Jim

Use your Hellwig front and stock rear bar and use the money save to buy Hotchkis leafs. Run you Edelbrocks since you have them and can't take them back.

Then think about front. 1.00" or 1.03" torsion bars if you're not looking for something real aggressive. On a budget, then put moog 7103 offset upper bushing in your stock upper control arm and poly strut bushing. That should get you 3-5 deg positve caster. OR look at Hotchkis upper arms and strut rods or equivalent.

What tires and rims you are considering or allready have.
Spring Fling XXX
April 22 & 23 2016

at Woodley Park Van Nuys, CA.
Special 30th Anniversary Event!
600+ Mopars, 300+ swappers,  50+ manf. midways.
Thrus: Mopar Track Day at Willow Springs Raceway
Fri: Caravan & Cruise
Sat: Mopar Cruise-In

Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2011 - 07:16:49 AM »
Use your Hellwig front and stock rear bar and use the money save to buy Hotchkis leafs. Run you Edelbrocks since you have them and can't take them back.

Then think about front. 1.00" or 1.03" torsion bars if you're not looking for something real aggressive. On a budget, then put moog 7103 offset upper bushing in your stock upper control arm and poly strut bushing. That should get you 3-5 deg positve caster. OR look at Hotchkis upper arms and strut rods or equivalent.

What tires and rims you are considering or allready have.

 :iagree: Good advice the 1.03" torsion bars are on sale at PST at the moment! I'd say this should be your next purchase? :2cents: You can always sell the sway bars you have at a later date?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2011 - 10:39:05 AM »
What tires and rims you are considering or allready have.

Currently I have a new set of rallyes 15x7 on front, 15x8 on back with 245/60 BFG TA's on front & 276/60's on back.  I know the tires aren't everyone's favorite, but I'd like to stay with these wheels if possible.  I could go to 17's at some point in the future but would really like a 17" version of the rallye's and so far I haven't seen anyone producing those.  Mickey Thompson makes some tires in 15" that look like possibly better handling tires, but I haven't heard anyone here mention them.
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Offline TreeFrog

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2011 - 01:33:23 PM »
Awesome info...

The Hotchkis is a pretty good looking set=up too.
I had the pleasure of seeing one installed yesterday.
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Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2011 - 07:09:12 PM »
Currently I have a new set of rallyes 15x7 on front, 15x8 on back with 245/60 BFG TA's on front & 276/60's on back.  I know the tires aren't everyone's favorite, but I'd like to stay with these wheels if possible.  I could go to 17's at some point in the future but would really like a 17" version of the rallye's and so far I haven't seen anyone producing those.  Mickey Thompson makes some tires in 15" that look like possibly better handling tires, but I haven't heard anyone here mention them.

As far as 15" rubber goes.... I have found BFG's go hard after 6 months or so. For the money I REALLY like the firestones. They have them in lots of 15" sizes.  :2cents:
I'm sure you will have fun burning the hides though!  :grinyes: I'm sure your not going to rush out and buy new tires untill the BFG's are worn out, might as well have a little fun with them!
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2011 - 07:24:34 PM »
The PST bars would have been nicer if they had been clocked about 20 degrees end to end...then the adjusters would not have to be screwed in almost all the way to get the ride height up.

Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2011 - 07:39:54 PM »
The PST bars would have been nicer if they had been clocked about 20 degrees end to end...then the adjusters would not have to be screwed in almost all the way to get the ride height up.

What if you switched bars side to side?  :dunno:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2011 - 08:54:56 PM »
What if you switched bars side to side?  :dunno:

they are marked r & L and I put them in that way...but, if there is any clocking in them from end to end, there is less than five degrees and I suspect zero

The Hotchkis bars, on the other hand, look like they have significant clocking if I am looking at the picture properly :)

Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis/XV vs. Mix & Match Parts?
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2011 - 09:02:10 PM »
Ah I see.
I got mine from Just Suspension , they installed great about in the middle of the adjuster bolt. ( 1"T-Bars)
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0