BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed

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Offline Road_Runner

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BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« on: June 19, 2011 - 12:51:46 PM »
OK, I've decided that I'm definitely going with a stroker kit for the Roadrunner's 383.  I've been considering everything from a 400 stroker to even a hemi stroker, but in an effort to keep as much of the original car I've decided just to stroke what I have.  That said, unless someone can convince me that the 906 heads can realisticly & affordably be made to perform like the newer heads I want to go with aluminum.  I've been strongly considering the 440source stealth heads because the goal is a 70's appearing car so I could just paint these and be done.  BUT, I'm not keen on putting Chinese parts in the heart of my American muscle car so I'd rather use something built here in the U.S.A.  So with that in mind, I could use some advice on Mopar Stage VI heads.  They look fairly stock, but haven't heard much about them here.  The Indy EZ heads have a great reputation, but don't look anywhere near stock.  Even painted I think these would stick out.  I'm either going with either the 438 or 496" stroker kits and will be using a 'stock' six pack intake and probably TTI headers.  If someone wants to chime in on domestically made stroker kits feel free! Thanks in advance for the help.

Later, Jim
1970 383 Roadrunner Tor Red
1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2011 - 02:17:08 PM »
here are my thoughts
 First stay away from the 496 ci build , the oil ring is over the wrist pin , it is basically a race engine .
Secondly all you really need are pistons , you can use a 440 crank & rods although it may work out as cheap to do a kit if you do not have a 440 crank & rods available .
With port work done properly the 906 will easily work for a great street strip engine & given that you want to use the stock 6 pack intake you will not need a lot more head flow , but if you want a max effort engine the aftermarket heads will be needed  . I could prot the heads for you but shipping would kill either to ship the heads or ship me there !
 If you decide to go with Alum heads I suggest the Indy EZ or Bulldog if you can find a set , you want a head with a small combuston chamber in the 78 cc or lower range , a flat top piston will make the best power but you need to have approx 11-1 compression to recover the heat loss to alum . the Mopar Stage 6 is a good head , I forget what the conbustion chamber size is for those , Mancini was clearing them out about 2 years ago for a steal . The Eddy & Stealth heads have too large combustion chambers to use a flat top piston & get near 11:1 compression
 Stay away from the Eagle stroke cranks , you spend more on machining down the counter weights to fit than just using a stock steel crank , I have not used the Scat cranks btu they may have fitment issues like the Eagle cranks . You can get a race crank made in the us but you will pay $2500-3000 for the crank alone , un-nessisary what what you want to do IMO

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2011 - 07:08:50 PM »
Thanks for the feedback Chryco, I've read in other threads where you're not against using the stock heads.  What 'level' of porting the stock heads would I need to flow enough for say 550 HP, 500 ft/lb TQ?  That seems like a reasonable goal for a 431 stroker.  For the oil ring issue on the 496, is that the same thing as 440source's note on whether oil support rings are used for a particular kit?  If so, they say the 383 496 kit doesn't use these.  It does show the 500 ci 400 kit using them though, and the rod length is different on the two kits.  And if that's the case is that your main concern about that stroker set up or is it still too radical for a street/some strip engine?  My HP & TQ goals aren't that radical I don't think based on some of the stroker articles I've read, but are aggressive enough I know I'll need to beef up the oiling system, etc. 

Thanks again, Jim
1970 383 Roadrunner Tor Red
1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black

Offline Moparal

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2011 - 09:04:13 PM »
if you use the 383/400 rod in the stroker kit, you dont use the the piston with the oil control ring in the pin. a 6.76 rod will be a shorter piston . And the pin in the oil rings

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2011 - 10:10:29 PM »
if you use the 383/400 rod in the stroker kit, you dont use the the piston with the oil control ring in the pin. a 6.76 rod will be a shorter piston . And the pin in the oil rings

Just so I'm reading this correctly, I'm good with the shorter 383 rod?  Also, is the oil control ring the primary knock on the 400/500 ci stroker kit which is why Chryco was against it for a street motor?  So if a 383/496 stroker doesn't need this type of ring its otherwise a good choice for a street & occasional strip motor, correct?

Thanks, Jim
1970 383 Roadrunner Tor Red
1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black

Offline Moparal

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2011 - 10:13:22 PM »
thats right  440 crank  not the 4.15   or even a 3.90 stroke

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2011 - 02:44:54 PM »
I'm pretty sure you can get away with a 4.25" stroke crank and a 6.35" length rod and still not have the piston ring in the oil ring.

Done this research awhile back as that's what I wanted to do with my 383.

Yes, for a stock look, i would go w/the 440source Stealth Heads.  You'd have big money in some 906s to get it to flow like the Stealths so why not save 40lbs too?
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2011 - 02:58:19 PM »
I'm pretty sure you can get away with a 4.25" stroke crank and a 6.35" length rod and still not have the piston ring in the oil ring.

Done this research awhile back as that's what I wanted to do with my 383.

Yes, for a stock look, i would go w/the 440source Stealth Heads.  You'd have big money in some 906s to get it to flow like the Stealths so why not save 40lbs too?

Did you go ahead with a big 383 stroker or go another way?  I'd love to talk to someone who's done this for their impressions. 
1970 383 Roadrunner Tor Red
1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2011 - 03:13:37 PM »
No, not yet.

Here's Muscle Motors' stroker kit description:

"496/383. This combination actually makes 489” in a +.030 bore and “496” in a +.060 bore. We just call it 496” because our original welded stroker kits that were the first on the market back in the 80’s were called '496 Stroker Kits'.  This combination is a TORQUE MONSTER. 4.25 stroke, 6.535 and a 1.307 compression height dished piston (for pump gas compression) and is ideal for someone building the ultimate sleeper. Our 1.307 piston also stops well below an unmachined stock block deck surface. These Ross pistons along with chamfered rod and main bearings and competiton balancing "

Not sure again if that 1.307 CH puts the pin in the oil groove or not.  I'll have to check my research again, but wouldn't hurt to ask MM.  I could have sworn a shorter rod (stock 383 rod is 6.358" so don't know why a longer rod is used w/the 4.25" stroker kit???) was the ticket, but I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011 - 03:34:08 PM by ragtopchally »
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2011 - 08:24:18 PM »
No, not yet.

Here's Muscle Motors' stroker kit description:

"496/383. This combination actually makes 489” in a +.030 bore and “496” in a

Yea, that's one of the kits I'm definitely considering.  I'll stay away from the ring issue, but otherwise this looks like an awesome way to build up a 383.
1970 383 Roadrunner Tor Red
1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2011 - 10:51:46 PM »
the short rod build keeps the oil ring away from the piston pin but you lose rod ratio which I am also a fan having the longer rods for better rod ratio , the piston spends more time AT TDC 7 moves away slower allowing more complete use of the fuel , =better power & milage

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2011 - 01:06:23 AM »
the short rod build keeps the oil ring away from the piston pin but you lose rod ratio which I am also a fan having the longer rods for better rod ratio , the piston spends more time AT TDC 7 moves away slower allowing more complete use of the fuel , =better power & milage

1.50 rod ratio w/the 6.385 rod v. 1.54 w/the 6.535 rod.

The former will have less rocking of the piston (which can cause poorer sealing; more ring wear) b/c of its higher CH, but won't rev quite as much b/c of the increased side loading.

Everything's a trade-off.
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2011 - 02:16:37 PM »
we built a mild 438 / 383 440 rods & crank , used a hyd cam & it runs great makes decent power , idles well & it is in a 69 RR as well , he is very happy but was not looking for a max output build

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Road_Runner

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Re: BB Mopar Aluminum Head Advice Needed
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2011 - 08:14:54 PM »
we built a mild 438 / 383 440 rods & crank , used a hyd cam & it runs great makes decent power , idles well & it is in a 69 RR as well , he is very happy but was not looking for a max output build

Yeah, I guess I'm looking for close to max power out of the 383, but also want it at least streetable.  The car has always had a rough idle, low MPG, etc. since I first builit it in 1976, so I'm more than happy to up the cubic inches, use better heads & cam than were available back then and make even more HP today.  I was really wanting a stroker hemi but with two kids still in college, etc.  this isn't the time to spend that kind of $$.  Plus my wife thinks I should keep as much of the original car as possible so the 383 stroker is back on the table.

Thanks, Jim
1970 383 Roadrunner Tor Red
1973 318 Barracuda Mist Green
2014 Mustang GT/CS Convertible All Black