451" build --- need some input please

[brads70]

Ok looks like my BB Buick is sold, ( getting picked up next week) so I'm going to use some of the proceeds to build a 451. The 440 in the Challenger runs OK just seems ...lacking?  ( you know how it goes, same old story.... more power!)
the 440 has a Holley street dominator intake, 850 Demon carb, new distributor. With the Mopar stage 6 heads I can use the intake/distributor/carb on the 400 block if I choose too.
Here are the parts I have now....
Mopar stage 6 heads-semi finished , no holes for valves yet
Milodon gear drive
Milodon road race oil pan
My plans are to get the heads finished and ported.
I want a roller cam , #1 for the power # 2 to avoid the zinc/ruined cam isues
I had a good chat with Muscle Motors while at Carlisle this summer, anyone have any input on them? Good? Bad?
Also while at Carlisle I was looking at a brand new compleate 6 pack set up ? What will give me the best power/milegae? 6-pack or 4 -barrel?
What I want from this engine.....
I don't need maximum  power output. I don't want something running on the ragged edge. I want to be able to get in it and drive anywhere, any distance. This car will NEVER be on a trailer! ( unless it's broke! )
I DO like RPM! 
I'm sticking with an automatic . 727 for now , maybe an overdrive auto in the future.
Now my 440 gets 10 MPG on the hwy ( 3:55 gear ratio) while not a big consideration more MPG's would be nice?
I'd like to see 500 HP and 500 foot pounds if posible? and RPM's when I want to ....

Any idea's guys? I have no/little idea on what cam spec's to look for?
Thanks Brad

[Chryco Psycho]

Where to start !!
 Keep the intake & carb , although if it fits your budget get a Proform 850 & get what you can out of the Demon
Lunati has some experimental Street roller cams , MY machinist has a killer grind in his 408 stroker .
here is the bottom line Hyd rollers cannot have fast ramp lobes or high RPM because if you put high pressure valves springs on the heads the hyd lifter will collapse under the pressure , on the other hand solid rollers offer all the advantages , high rpm killer spring loads & killer lobe profiles ! The problem is they need a bronze oil pump / dist drive & it will only last approx 3 oil changes , 10,000 miles , you will need to adjust valves on a regular basis & the link between the lifters can fail distroying the cam & lifter . This is why I use Lunati Custom ground solid cams .
you have to adjust the valves but the cost is approx 1/2 of a roller grind , they have a long life typically , I can get close the the same specs as a street roller grind , the /6 & Cummins use solid cams exclusively [except for the last couple of years in the /6]  after the initial adjustmant I set them approx once / year , they are street friendly , make a ton of power & will take a lot of RPM , you should be able to take a 451 to 7000 no prob

[Bullitt-]

Brad, I'm surprised your not considering EFI......Heck between you, Shelbydog and a few snowblower parts you could probably turbo charge it to.   

[brads70]

Brad, I'm surprised your not considering EFI......Heck between you, Shelbydog and a few snowblower parts you could probably turbo charge it to.   

Oh I'd like to go EFI but that's pretty pricey  still, I love the look of  that EFI 6 pack set up , but wow is it expencive... I do have a bit of an issue boiling the fuel in the carb when I sit in traffic for very long, nothing to serious it just stumbles for a few seconds when I go to take off again. I'm guessing the air cleaner base is holding in the heat around the carb.

[brads70]

Where to start !!
 Keep the intake & carb , although if it fits your budget get a Proform 850 & get what you can out of the Demon
Lunati has some experimental Street roller cams , MY machinist has a killer grind in his 408 stroker .
here is the bottom line Hyd rollers cannot have fast ramp lobes or high RPM because if you put high pressure valves springs on the heads the hyd lifter will collapse under the pressure , on the other hand solid rollers offer all the advantages , high rpm killer spring loads & killer lobe profiles ! The problem is they need a bronze oil pump / dist drive & it will only last approx 3 oil changes , 10,000 miles , you will need to adjust valves on a regular basis & the link between the lifters can fail distroying the cam & lifter . This is why I use Lunati Custom ground solid cams .
you have to adjust the valves but the cost is approx 1/2 of a roller grind , they have a long life typically , I can get close the the same specs as a street roller grind , the /6 & Cummins use solid cams exclusively [except for the last couple of years in the /6]  after the initial adjustmant I set them approx once / year , they are street friendly , make a ton of power & will take a lot of RPM , you should be able to take a 451 to 7000 no prob

Thanks for your input Neil! so what your saying is get the proform carb and don't be so chicken s-it about a solid lifter cam
I guess I'm leary of them because I've never had one.   adjusting the valves once a year won't kill me. So they are still street freindly, like I can drive it 850 miles round trip to Carlisle and not worry about anything?

So to help me pick a cam, what do you need? Airflow specs from the finished ported head?

[422STROKER]

Sold the Buick?  Good for you and now you got some extra $$$ for the Snot Rod!

Tom

[Bullitt-]

Oh I'd like to go EFI but that's pretty pricey  still, I love the look of  that EFI 6 pack set up , but wow is it expencive...

Well the 6-pack intakes aren't pricey and the junk yards are full of 2V throttle bodies.
 HEY I thought you wuz a enginerd. 

[brads70]

Well the 6-pack intakes aren't pricey and the junk yards are full of 2V throttle bodies.
 HEY I thought you wuz a enginerd. 

True, good point, I priced a 6 pack set up at $2400. FI set up is quite a bit more though.
The carb Neil likes is a much better deal money wise though.

[Chryco Psycho]

Mancini has the carb you need for $5-600.
The 4 bbl will make more power than a six pack for sure a friend of mine did just that , removed a 4 bbl & RPM intake & installed a six pack , immediatly lost a bunch of power , so we re-installed the 4 bbl & the power returned , he prefered the look of the 6 pack but sold it off .
 OK so what I have typically used is the TF57 / TF60 split profile grind , I think this the the Cam Jeff is using in his stroker  I adjust the CL depending on manifolds & headers & RPM desired , in you case I would use either the 110 cl with slightly better drivability & vacuum or the 108 CL for max power at 6000 + RPM , if you download Lunatis PDF catalog you will not find this cam , the lobe specs are in the back of the catalog under lobe profiles , 906 lifter , Chrysler / AMC only , the lobe lift is .570 / .582 , duration @ .050 is 250 / 255 . Barry , 73 E stroker is using this cam & says it is still pulling at 6500+ with 110 cl in a 451 with Indy EZ heads .
 http://www.lunatipower.com/PDF/LunatiCatalog.pdf is the site , I am looking for the page with the lobe designs

[Chryco Psycho]

the TF series cam are  on page 185 , For Chry & AMC only with wider .906 lifters

[Chryco Psycho]

Keepin mind you Have to have a bronze tip fuel pump pushrod as well with any roller cam & a mechanical fuel pump

[grimmey71]

are you running the stage vi chapman heads with this combo?

[torqueaddict]

Hey brad just curious but what made you go with a 451 stroker rather than stroking a 440 to 500+ cid? I hear different things in terms of which is better.

[Topcat]

II had a good chat with Muscle Motors while at Carlisle this summer, anyone have any input on them? Good? Bad?

When they balanced my Hemi stroker crank, it became a Swiss cheese nightmare.
The crank had like 12 holes in it.

Other than that, great prices, fast shipping and they took care of the problem sending me a new un balanced crank. 

My advice: buy from them and machine shop near you is best option.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have been dealing with Eric @ Muscle motors for years
No issues great to deal with .
Tell him I sent you