Author Topic: 451" build --- need some input please (Read 32129 times)

BB73Challenger · « **Reply #30 on:** July 22, 2011 - 07:56:36 PM »

Yeah CP likes Lunati's grinds and obviously Al ( this is the cam he picked ) so these are the guys I would be asking anyways

It's kind of like how I was running dual plane intakes all along before my Holley Dom.. I must get an idea or concept stuck in my head that certain things are only street or only track... but if you are able to match all of the components properly you can get that driveability while still being a screaming machine

I guess I fear them stories where you hear that guy that over-carbed, or over-cammed and can't get their ride to idle or drive at all... but I think the crew here manages all the possible HP out of motor WHILE driving them and enjoying them ( I think of Jason and "Public Nuisance" - pump gas, street driven and tearing up the streets, or all of the builds Neil has done with seemingly everything from mild to wild )

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #31 on:** July 22, 2011 - 11:15:09 PM »

Tell me what you want & we will taylor a grind that suits , the TF 57 / TF60 grind is awesome for power a decent for drivability
the pkg we built is the 512 stroker
512 R/T posted it in the proven engine section http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=54640.msg565410#msg565410
it idles at 800 rpm ,makes 10" of vacuum , you could drive it 1000 miles non stop easily , no heating problems , it has 3.55 gears & an OD transmission , .071 ratio OD , runs 275 /60 / 15 tires , 70 MPH = 2200 rpm , powerband is 2100 - 5200 rpm with a slight curve from 400ft lbs to a peak of 460 dropping off to 400 at 5200 . HP curve runs higher as always top end on this engine is unknown but will easily run to 6500 rpm or more.
The higher lift of the solid cams ,close to .600 lift is where the roller cams go to make power

brads70 · « **Reply #32 on:** July 22, 2011 - 11:55:21 PM »

Quote from: Chryco Psycho on July 22, 2011 - 11:15:09 PM

Tell me what you want & we will taylor a grind that suits , the TF 57 / TF60 grind is awesome for power a decent for drivability
the pkg we built is the 512 stroker
512 R/T posted it in the proven engine section http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=54640.msg565410#msg565410
it idles at 800 rpm ,makes 10" of vacuum , you could drive it 1000 miles non stop easily , no heating problems , it has 3.55 gears & an OD transmission , .071 ratio OD , runs 275 /60 / 15 tires , 70 MPH = 2200 rpm , powerband is 2100 - 5200 rpm with a slight curve from 400ft lbs to a peak of 460 dropping off to 400 at 5200 . HP curve runs higher as always top end on this engine is unknown but will easily run to 6500 rpm or more.
The higher lift of the solid cams ,close to .600 lift is where the roller cams go to make power

That engine sounds great! Idles at 800 and I like the idea of power and the 17 MPG!
My 440 now gets 10 MPG and it's not that impressive power wise. I was told it was from a motorhome, it does ping if I use crappy fuel though .
I like RPM but really how often am I gonna drive it at 7000. Does the .600 lift degrade reliability ? Like would I have to replace valve springs often? When you say the Lunati TF57/TF60 grind , is that an off the shelf cam or do you order the intake specs from one and the exhaust specs from the other? Sorry newbie question? I would asume you wouldn't use the same cam in a 451 that you use in a 512?
I have no idea how to choose a cam, for this engine so I'll be depending on your knowledge on this one!

The big lifts sort of "scare me" I've never had an engine with that much cam, but then again this is my first Mopar build so I'm green! and all my cars so far have been daily drivers so that changes things...
I'm planning on taking the block in next week to get rough bored and checked over before I order a kit. I might even go to the nats if I can pick it up there from Muscle Motors.

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #33 on:** July 23, 2011 - 02:32:48 AM »

actually yes I would use the same cam in the 451
The TF cams are special order . Call Lunati & they will grind it for you. If you use a good quality spring it will last for years no problem

brads70 · « **Reply #34 on:** July 26, 2011 - 10:35:33 PM »

Quote from: Chryco Psycho on July 23, 2011 - 02:32:48 AM

actually yes I would use the same cam in the 451
The TF cams are special order . Call Lunati & they will grind it for you. If you use a good quality spring it will last for years no problem

Thanks Neil!
Question what does the numbers under the 110deg pertain to. or any other degs?

SOLID FLAT TAPPET
.904 DESIGN 27 Degree Major Design - Very Aggressive Race Type Lobes For AMC or Chrysler Only.
LOBE RATED DURATION LOBE TAPPET LIFT THEORETICAL VALVE LIFT @ �0� LASH
PART DURATION IN LIFT @ TDC ROCKER ARM RATIO
# @.020 DEGREES
@ .050 @ .200 102� 106� 110� 1.5 1.55 1.6 1.65 1.7
TF70 266 239 158 0.358 .112 .097 .083 .536 .555 .572 .591 .607
TF62 270 243 162 0.365 .120 .105 .090 .548 .566 .584 .602 .620
TF61 274 247 164 0.373 .125 .110 .095 .559 .578 .596 .615 .633
TF60 278 251 168 0.380 .132 .117 .102 .570 .589 .608 .627 .646
TF57 282 255 172 0.388 .140 .125 .110 .582 .601 .620 .640 .659
TF58 286 259 177 0.390 .148 .133 .118 .587 .605 .625 .644 .664
TF59 290 263 181 0.398 .156 .141 .126 .597 .617 .637 .657 .677
TF63 294 267 185 0.406 .164 .150 .134 .609 .629 .650 .670 .690
TF64 298 271 188 0.413 .170 .155 .140 .620 .640 .662 .681 .703
TF69 304 277 193 0.427 .180 .165 .150 .640 .662 .683 .705 .726

brads70 · « **Reply #35 on:** July 26, 2011 - 10:49:29 PM »

Quote from: 72challorange on July 17, 2011 - 09:04:02 AM

Sold the Buick? Good for you and now you got some extra $$$ for the Snot Rod!

Tom

The buyer came and picked it up today .Mixed feelings. Kinda sad to see it go to tell you the truth.

He paid cash, go pretty close to my asking price . I filled the back of his pickup with extra parts to so he got a pretty good deal and I'm OK with the cash, never held that much before?

Off to the machine shop soon!

brads70 · « **Reply #36 on:** July 28, 2011 - 05:33:42 PM »

Taking the block to the machine shop tomorrow!

I hope it's good ( not cracked etc... )

422STROKER · « **Reply #37 on:** July 28, 2011 - 09:43:29 PM »

Glad He followed through with the sale. Good luck on the build!

Tom

brads70 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 02, 2011 - 08:18:51 PM »

Quote from: brads70 on July 26, 2011 - 10:35:33 PM

Thanks Neil!
Question what does the numbers under the 110deg pertain to. or any other degs?

SOLID FLAT TAPPET
.904 DESIGN 27 Degree Major Design - Very Aggressive Race Type Lobes For AMC or Chrysler Only.
LOBE RATED DURATION LOBE TAPPET LIFT THEORETICAL VALVE LIFT @ �0� LASH
PART DURATION IN LIFT @ TDC ROCKER ARM RATIO
# @.020 DEGREES
@ .050 @ .200 102� 106� 110� 1.5 1.55 1.6 1.65 1.7
TF70 266 239 158 0.358 .112 .097 .083 .536 .555 .572 .591 .607
TF62 270 243 162 0.365 .120 .105 .090 .548 .566 .584 .602 .620
TF61 274 247 164 0.373 .125 .110 .095 .559 .578 .596 .615 .633
TF60 278 251 168 0.380 .132 .117 .102 .570 .589 .608 .627 .646
TF57 282 255 172 0.388 .140 .125 .110 .582 .601 .620 .640 .659
TF58 286 259 177 0.390 .148 .133 .118 .587 .605 .625 .644 .664
TF59 290 263 181 0.398 .156 .141 .126 .597 .617 .637 .657 .677
TF63 294 267 185 0.406 .164 .150 .134 .609 .629 .650 .670 .690
TF64 298 271 188 0.413 .170 .155 .140 .620 .640 .662 .681 .703
TF69 304 277 193 0.427 .180 .165 .150 .640 .662 .683 .705 .726

Neil I don't mind giving up some power/RPM with a hyd roller set up. I e-mailed Lunati and asked about a hyd roller version of the TF 57 / TF60
Here is my reply. What do you think?

With what you have the 60313 would be similar to that solid although the way
you listed that cam, I think you listed the exhaust lobe before the intake
because the TF57 is a 255 at .050 and the TF60 is a 251 at .050. The 60313
is a 243/251 at .050, .560/.565, and it is on a 110 LSA with a 106 intake
center. Let me know if you have any questions and I will be happy to help.

Thanks,

David Chamberlain
Tech Support/Sales
LUNATI
11126 Willow Ridge Dr.
Olive Branch, MS 38654
PH: (662) 892-1502
FX: (662) 892-6309

Here is a link to the cam card......
http://www.lunatipower.com/CamSpecCard.aspx?partNumber=60313

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #39 on:** August 02, 2011 - 11:57:02 PM »

I usually deal with Steve or Jeff in the tech dept , I fthey figure they can run that agressive profile without collapsing lifter under the spring load go for it

brads70 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 05, 2011 - 09:53:59 AM »

Quote from: Chryco Psycho on July 18, 2011 - 10:48:50 AM

I have been dealing with Eric @ Muscle motors for years
No issues great to deal with .
Tell him I sent you

Eric said Hi!

I had to call to get some details....

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #41 on:** August 05, 2011 - 05:59:28 PM »

So when is he coming to visit ??

brads70 · « **Reply #42 on:** August 05, 2011 - 06:25:54 PM »

Quote from: Chryco Psycho on August 05, 2011 - 05:59:28 PM

So when is he coming to visit ??

There ya go! I'll tell him about your bed/breakfast deal! By the time he's done taking my money from this build he should have enough to go!

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #43 on:** August 06, 2011 - 11:10:36 AM »

Spirit air has return flights from Detroit for $400 !!

airfueleddie · « **Reply #44 on:** August 06, 2011 - 05:38:32 PM »

Hi Brad, I sent you an e-mail with my cam specs, hope that helped, Chryco was great in helping with my 500 stroker as well. Here is a few vids of my 500 cube lowdeck on the Stuska, we made approx. 8 pulls both on gasoline,(93 octane) and E-85. The engine idles nicely at 900 RPm's and made 12" of vacum at that RPM's. I didnt want too much lope because my 72 Challenger will be driven to Goldfield Nev. and Stevenson Washington, approx. 5-7k mile roadtrip! Iused a FBO distributor with 20 initial and 14 mech. all in by 3200 RPM's and no vacum advance yet, it will in time, after Don at FBO re-curves it for street usage so I can keep my plugs and chamber clean and eek out a few more MPG. http://www.youtube.com/user/Sgt.Stedenko1?feature=mhee#p/a/u/2/XolfvvlJlOY try Sgt. Stedenko1 if this doesnt come up,,I have 3 dyno runs on there and you can hear the cam at 900 RPM's it idels very nicely with some slight lope but it made 617 HP and over 600 ft. lbs all below 6000 RPM's but we took it to 6400 with no valve float. The lightweight Trend Beehives no doubt reduced considerable weight on the hyd. oil circuit. Eddie

Author Topic: 451" build --- need some input please (Read 32129 times)

BB73Challenger

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Chryco Psycho

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brads70

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Chryco Psycho

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brads70

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brads70

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brads70

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422STROKER

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brads70

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Chryco Psycho

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brads70

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Chryco Psycho

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brads70

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Chryco Psycho

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airfueleddie

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