Steering won't self-center

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    Author Topic: Steering won't self-center  (Read 4614 times)

    Offline cwestra

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    Steering won't self-center
    « on: July 24, 2011 - 09:37:23 AM »
    I did a partial rebuild on my steering box earlier this year to repair a leak in one of the O-rings.  The area I worked on was where the steering shaft goes into it.  I only dug down far enough to replace the suspect O-ring and then put it back together.  Since completing this I noticed that the steering does not want to self-center.  I have tried adjusting the nut on the top to take up play but can't seem to get it to center as it did before the box work.  Any suggestions on what might be going on?  Did I somehow screw up the box when I put it back together?
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana


    Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011 - 10:03:51 AM »
    Check the caster on the front suspension alignment. You may just be noticing it more because you rebuilt the box  :wave:
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    Offline Chryco Psycho

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011 - 10:43:36 AM »
    I agree Caster set with the wheel alignment centers the steering using factory specs designed for bias ply tires will nto work with radials , max the caster setting
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    Offline cwestra

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011 - 10:47:44 AM »
    Quote from: GoodysGotaCuda on July 24, 2011 - 10:03:51 AM
    Check the caster on the front suspension alignment. You may just be noticing it more because you rebuilt the box  :wave:
    I thought the same thing after I drove it so I took it down and had the alignment done again.  The guy said it was pretty close but did make a few adjustments.  The caster he ended up with was 0.6° (left) and 0.9° (right).  Now, I'm assuming positive caster has the wheel trailing back (like the front wheels on a grocery cart being pushed).  The factory spec has a "preferred" setting of -1/16th which seems like pretty close to straight up and down.  The total acceptable range is 15/16 deg. to -3/8 deg.  If my settings are for more caster than the "preferred" amount then shouldn't I actually be seeing more of a tendency to self-center the wheel than one set up to the "preferred" value?

    What do others have their caster set at?
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana

    Offline cwestra

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011 - 10:53:43 AM »
    Quote from: Chryco Psycho on July 24, 2011 - 10:43:36 AM
    I agree Caster set with the wheel alignment centers the steering using factory specs designed for bias ply tires will nto work with radials , max the caster setting
    Quote
    How much caster can I go up to and what are the drawbacks to going higher, like more difficulty to turn the wheel?  Seeing that I am close to the max setting already (.6° and .9°), I'm guessing I wouldn't see much difference if I went to the max. of 15/16 deg. (.94°).
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana

    Offline Chryco Psycho

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011 - 10:56:35 AM »
    if the adjustment would allow for it go as high as 3*
     the caa will be harder to turn but you won't feel it with power steering
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    Offline cwestra

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011 - 12:10:31 PM »
    Quote from: Chryco Psycho on July 24, 2011 - 10:56:35 AM
    if the adjustment would allow for it go as high as 3*
     the caa will be harder to turn but you won't feel it with power steering
    Agreed.  Thanks, CP.
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana

    Offline 73EStroker

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011 - 03:04:52 PM »
    I am going to cure this same problem with the Hotchkiss UCAs sitting under my bench. Probably won't do them until she goes hibernating for the winter. You need to get to like 3 or 4º caster before you will see a big improvement. With stock UCAs you have to give up camber to get more caster. You could also use offset UCA bushings for a budget good fix.
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    Barry (Salmon Arm)

    Offline cwestra

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #8 on: July 31, 2011 - 10:46:24 AM »
    Quote from: 73EStroker on July 27, 2011 - 03:04:52 PM
    I am going to cure this same problem with the Hotchkiss UCAs sitting under my bench. Probably won't do them until she goes hibernating for the winter. You need to get to like 3 or 4º caster before you will see a big improvement. With stock UCAs you have to give up camber to get more caster. You could also use offset UCA bushings for a budget good fix.
    Thanks.  I assume you experienced the same problem with your E-body then, right?  Do you know if the trade-off in camber in order to reach 3° caster with stock components would be enough to cause wear my tires? 
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana

    Offline Chryco Psycho

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011 - 12:29:12 PM »
    adding castor will not cause tire wear alone , but if you change camber it can wear the inner or outer edge of the tire down
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    Offline 73EStroker

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011 - 09:33:51 PM »
    cwestra - basically my car is new from all the work done restoring it. The steering right now takes away a lot as this car is really quick off the mark and extremely fast on the highway (nearly 130mph in 3rd, Passon OD) but it has to be steered almost to the point you fatigue steering it. Caster is coming maybe sooner than later. And I will reduce the pump relief valve spring pressure as well down to about the 850psi mark. Will do pump first and post results asap.
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    Barry (Salmon Arm)

    Offline Skunkworks Challenger

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011 - 09:49:36 PM »
    Just as an observer, it appears to me that a lot of the caster problems (negative caster) I'm hearing about  is caused by or made worse due to raising the rear end higher than stock. A nice rake looks good but can wipe out positive caster.  PK
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    The Brewmaster

    Offline cwestra

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011 - 04:03:02 AM »
    Quote from: Skunkworks Challenger on August 02, 2011 - 09:49:36 PM
    Just as an observer, it appears to me that a lot of the caster problems (negative caster) I'm hearing about  is caused by or made worse due to raising the rear end higher than stock. A nice rake looks good but can wipe out positive caster.  PK
    That may help explain the handling condition I have on my car since it came out of the factory with the rear end raised an extra 1.50".  But I am having trouble visualizing how raising the car in the rear would affect caster negatively.
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana

    Offline UKcuda

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011 - 04:30:51 AM »
    Quote from: cwestra on August 03, 2011 - 04:03:02 AM
    That may help explain the handling condition I have on my car since it came out of the factory with the rear end raised an extra 1.50".  But I am having trouble visualizing how raising the car in the rear would affect caster negatively.


    I think the caster is not like on a shopping trolley, it's the other way round, like on a motorcycle.

    But I would also still suspect your steering box since that is the only thing you played with to start this problem.  If you remember my steering box had been assembled wrongly by some previous owner and it caused it to have no return to center.  The reaction spring and ring had been installed the wrong way round:

    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=74593.msg766509#msg766509
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    Offline cwestra

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    Re: Steering won't self-center
    « Reply #14 on: August 15, 2011 - 09:11:21 AM »
    Quote from: UKcuda on August 09, 2011 - 04:30:51 AM
    I think the caster is not like on a shopping trolley, it's the other way round, like on a motorcycle.

    But I would also still suspect your steering box since that is the only thing you played with to start this problem.  If you remember my steering box had been assembled wrongly by some previous owner and it caused it to have no return to center.  The reaction spring and ring had been installed the wrong way round:

    http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=74593.msg766509#msg766509
    Good point, UK.  I'll look into that. Thank you.
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    Corey - in Northern Indiana
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