Cr@ppy Chinese Parts!!

[GranCuda1970]

Well I am not happy with the notion that the rest of the world can just sit on its arse while the chinese make all of the crappy stuff. Policy needs to change and Americans need to be put to work. It will come to a head sooner than later and things will change.

[alphabuck]

i work in the auto parts biz.  recently while talking with a raybestos rep i learned of a brake rotor plant in china.  he said that out front was the most modern 21st century factory you could envision.   behind that building was a 70s or 80s vintage factory that was semi automated.  way out back was the 50s vintage facility where brake rotors were being poured with sand molds with people filling the molds by hand.

the federal mogul rep < wagner brakes > was telling me that the last american rotor production facility in st louis was recently closed.  it was an old facility and at the end of the day federal mogul determined that it couldnt be updated or replaced on american soil for dollars that made sense.

at the end of the day its one thing to say " i want to buy american "  its another thing to put your money where your mouth is and pay 3, 4 maybe 5 times as much for the american version when the mortgage is due and you need back to school clothes and now your brakes are squeaking. 

[GranCuda1970]

That brings me back to why? it is so expensive for them to retool expand and we all know the answer to that one!! They are government and they are here to help.

[alphabuck]

well in fairness theres alot more in play here than just the cost of government regulation today.  theres also the cost of labor and so on.   

an american foundry worker is going to demand upwards of 15-20 bucks an hour to man the robot that builds the rotors.  the chinese dude is making what a dollar an hour?

the american foundry owner is going to face far higher taxation and compliance with regulations cost in the usa than in communist china.  hes competing in a global market so by default hes going to put his plant in china.

the only way an american company could make american rotors and stay afloat would be for american rotors to last 3 times longer and maybe even be capable of being turned once or twice.  there is a niche market for quality in america.

the problem with that scenario is in no time at all youve fulfilled the markets needs and now theres not enough new customers seeking quality to keep you afloat.  thats why theres no more curtis mathis tvs.

its not as simplistic as we might think

[GranCuda1970]

That is where tarrifs come in but we both agree that won,t happen right now for some reason! Jack up the cost to flood the US market.

[alphabuck]

tariffs on balance sound like a good idea.  but a tariff is just a tax.  lets take something i sell for 20 dollars everyday.  a ford taurus brake rotor.  the american version costs 60 dollars.  so you slap a tariff on the chicom one of 40 dollars thus making all for taurus brake rotors sold in america 60 dollars.

who gains from this besides government?  certainly not the single mom driving a 160k mile 99 taurus. 

are you going to create some social engineering to redistribute the tariffs collected?  rich people pay it and single moms claim brake jobs on their taxes?

[GranCuda1970]

That will have to be done or we will have many more of them out of work moms and pops.Then who is gonna buy the chino crap then. Look in Europe they have some countries now that have a 50% unemployment rate. Hard to keep the peace when so many are out of work,It will be hard for the cop to walk a beat when they are rioting on his street!! Hard to pay the bills when people are out of work. The numbers will continue to rise and rise and the cost of the government to support will rise and rise with it.  balance has to be brought.

[GranCuda1970]

I am not looking foward to the fight between Bud the C.H.U.D. and Bubba the farmer but my odds are on BUBBA!

[alphabuck]

theres something else to consider here too.  whos going to man these rotor foundries?  american kids dont want to do that sort of work.

my wife runs a fast food joint in a tourist trap not too far from me.  they have to import thousands of foreigners each summer to clean rooms and watch swimming pools for 10 bucks an hour because american teens wont do it.  our local farms are manned by guys named miguel sanchez because american youth wont do it. 

years ago it was pretty simple.  if you dont work you dont eat.  those times are gone.  today as long as you have a child youre going to have a roof over your head, food in your belly, tv and cell phone and probably a car.  by any measure poverty in america is a lifestyle that about 90% of the people on earth would call living like a king. 

when we bring all these production jobs back to the usa whos going to fill them?

[GranCuda1970]

I saw a Nuclear Plant control room tech with a Bachelors in Nuclear Physics workin in a production plant for less than 13 bucks an hour! He worked to survive until he got another job and working the generator at a local dam. They will work when they get hungry. Plus they have to pay for the $100,000 studant loans they got.

[priderocks]

shadango, you are onto it.

Tariffs at first blush seem like a good idea, but as someone previously mentioned, they are merely a tax. A couple of years ago Obama approved a tariff on Chinese tires. In reality, tariffs are bad moves for a couple of reasons.

First, tariffs protect a single industry typically ( like tires) and may preserve jobs in that particular industry, but they cost the same number of jobs to be lost in other industries as they save in the tire industry. Here's how it works. Let's say you have in a typical year $5k of discretionary income. This is income you spend on your mopar, movies, eating out, vacations, and for this case, tires. If the tire tariff (remember, it's another tax) causes the price you pay for a set of tires to increase say $40, that is $40 less you have to spend on movie tickets and eating at your favorite restaurant. That $40 you paid to help the tire worker hang onto their job costs people at the local restaurants, etc. to lose theirs. It may seem the economy and individual's budgets are large enough and flexible enough to absorb that $40 without adverse economic impact, but in reality it's a fixed sum game- if my piece of the pie is bigger, yours is smaller. That's the principle-increase taxes on individuals and/or companies, watch the marginal companies of the world go belly-up.

The second reason you don't want to go down the tariff road is tariffs can ignite protectionist trade wars.
Then, it's the principle illustrated above in spades. All exports cost more, people spend less, and more jobs are lost.

There are major reasons Chinese stuff is cheap besides the cheaper labor. The Chinese rigidly control the value of their currency rather than let it "float", and have it's value determined by the market.  As a result, Chinese products are priced about 20% lower than they should be. China also massively subsidizes industries to encourage exports. They do this buy underwriting the costs of energy, land, gasoline, interest rates on loans to businesses, etc.

There are no simple solutions to this.

[Cooter]

My wife after working for less than $10/hour at a local Factory, and getting laid off from these a$$holes, she got another job... The Problem:..................................................................................
ALMOST ALL the other workers including but not limited to the managers, HATE HER...Before she showed the rest how someone could and WILL come in and work hard, actually DO HER JOB, the managers were content with taking a couple hours in the morning to "Dictate" the jobs and then leave. They would stay gone for a day then do the same thing the next day. This was the norm. Once the managers saw someone willing to manage and actually DO THE JOB right beside the "Lowly" base worker, they couldn't believe it...Bout fell over. You mean she is a manager and doesn't leave for hours on end? Doesn't just decide when she has a "Stressful" day, she just up and leaves? NO, she doesn't, and because she is FINALLY being rewarded for the hard AMERICAN worker she is, her co-managers had her "Drug tested" complaining saying she "Must be on some form of drugs to break her back for this company like she does"...


She comes home and tells me this over the course of the year she's been there and I cannot believe some of the things she has to go through just being an AMERICAN hard worker...Bottom line is, she disrupted the former managers ideal job of "Now that I'm manager, I can do whatever I want, nobody can touch me, I've got made" Scenario....And she works HARDER than they do, making LESS MONEY!!

You tell me what's wrong with this picture. Today's basic worker doesn't feel the level of self pride that workers of yesterday felt. They are drones leaving for a job they seem to hate with a passon, and the only way they seem to "Get by" is to get some kind of feeling of "Well, I'll give myself a raise if I do less for the same pay..That'll Teach 'em" Mentallity...THIS is what's wrong with Amrican workers....Ok, you say give 'em the big bucks...I say Bullsh*t...All you will have is the same thing you have with the unions. Overpaid people doing as little as they can get by with while the ones that "Break their backs" for the company will never see a "reward" for doing so..there's no incentive for going above and beyond anymore. Your either looked at as an ass kisser, or some kind of robot on drugs or something.

Nobody even cares about doing a good job anymore in America...All they care about is "Well, I gotta be here from 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM, and the less I can do throughout the day, the better off I am".....


This isn't the way it should be if you make $100K/year. You should be one of the hardest working muthaf*kers on the planet making that kind of money...BUT! We've been shown the "Good side" of life by companies like Enron where "Get rich quick" at all costs can give you the American Dream quickly without having to break your back, and we bought into it...So much so, that the average American worker has deemed themselves "Too educated" to work hard for McDonalds...They seem to think because they have a degree in something, they have the right to act like they are "Too good" to have to work hard at a lower SOCIAL and economical job anymore. How many times have you heard a friend/family member say something like "I have a degree in business management and I'm gonna wait until something comes along"..Meanwhile, they are living on the Government till the job they feel is "Their given right" comes along...Instead of working at Micky D's to pay the bills, they refuse because it's beneath them...

The world is going to hell, and we are unwilling to sacrifice anything when it is personal to us that has to do the sacrificing....Meanwhile, we will steadily complain about how those "Illeagals" are taking all the jobs"..Really? Would YOU work out in the hot sun all day, come home smelling like 2 cycle fuel, sweaty as hell, dirty, and all for $7.00/hour??? Oh, that's right, you went to school to have a better life with all those degrees and such.....
Have fun driviing that new SUV, BMW, MErcedes, Etc. you can't pay for because you didn't learn a trade....

[ChallengerHK]

FINALLY got another job after lying about having a "Prexisting condition"

Be careful about posting stuff like this online. If anybody chose to hire a private investigator to look into this, there's be a permanent record here that anyone could find, read and save. I'd edit that post if it were me.

[GranCuda1970]

shadango, you are onto it.

Tariffs at first blush seem like a good idea, but as someone previously mentioned, they are merely a tax. A couple of years ago Obama approved a tariff on Chinese tires. In reality, tariffs are bad moves for a couple of reasons.

First, tariffs protect a single industry typically ( like tires) and may preserve jobs in that particular industry, but they cost the same number of jobs to be lost in other industries as they save in the tire industry. Here's how it works. Let's say you have in a typical year $5k of discretionary income. This is income you spend on your mopar, movies, eating out, vacations, and for this case, tires. If the tire tariff (remember, it's another tax) causes the price you pay for a set of tires to increase say $40, that is $40 less you have to spend on movie tickets and eating at your favorite restaurant. That $40 you paid to help the tire worker hang onto their job costs people at the local restaurants, etc. to lose theirs. It may seem the economy and individual's budgets are large enough and flexible enough to absorb that $40 without adverse economic impact, but in reality it's a fixed sum game- if my piece of the pie is bigger, yours is smaller. That's the principle-increase taxes on individuals and/or companies, watch the marginal companies of the world go belly-up.

The second reason you don't want to go down the tariff road is tariffs can ignite protectionist trade wars.
Then, it's the principle illustrated above in spades. All exports cost more, people spend less, and more jobs are lost.

There are major reasons Chinese stuff is cheap besides the cheaper labor. The Chinese rigidly control the value of their currency rather than let it "float", and have it's value determined by the market.  As a result, Chinese products are priced about 20% lower than they should be. China also massively subsidizes industries to encourage exports. They do this buy underwriting the costs of energy, land, gasoline, interest rates on loans to businesses, etc.

There are no simple solutions to this.

 I understand everything you said there But I still think we need to impose those taxes on them. Trade war smade war. we are in one!!! Hell we get hacked daily to see what can be stolen and copied.

[Street_Challenged73]

They may have everything else getting made over there, but we still have the fortune cookie company whipping them out in Minnesota!!!  Anyone else see the irony here?