Who here has the Keisler A-41 auto OD set up?

[jordan]

I just got an update from Keisler.  They do not have the correct flywheel to fit my crank.  I have an eight bolt hole crank like a hemi, when most 440s have six bolt cranks.  So, the flywheel will not bolt up.  I will have to wait for their flywheel vendor to make another one.  The Keisler shop guy told me that the GM trans is fitted to the motor like a GM and not Mopar.  They have no flex plate, and use a flywheel with the ring gear, instead of the torque converter having the ring gear.  He said a stock modern type mopar starter will still bolt up.  He recommended  getting a cheap pull-a-part starter from a truck. 

Hey Brad, you better count your crank bolt holes. 

[brads70]

Hey Brad, you better count your crank bolt holes.

I ordered the kit on Tuesday.
Ya I did , mines a 6 bolt, also had to let Keisler know if it was external or internal balanced. Mine's internal.  I had my choice of controllers ( same price either one) I picked the "smart shift" controler.  Also went with the 2200-2900 stall speed convertor. I already have the mini starter on my 440 so I'm good that way.

[jordan]

Hi Brad, Keisler never gave me a choice in controllers.  What is a smart shift, and how is it different that the simple shift?  I just checked their website and couldn't find any info.  Should I give them a call?

[bugsdad]

I would seriously consider using a 4L80e based unit instead of any 700r4/60e/65e based unit. I built these for years and know all their weak spot mechanically. The sprag,overrun clutch hub,3/4 clutch stack, input drum and reaction carrier shaft are ALL weak points. The sprag is #1. You guys will break these if your car hooks up to the pavement unless they program in a failsafe to make the trans upshift to a higher gear in the event of a freewheel condition....which saves the trans but takes the point of the burnout out of it. As long as you spin the rear tires your fine. If they hook, your sprag is done. 4l65 uses the sprag for all forward gears except OD where it overruns. On a hard 4-3 downshift, it will flip. Input drum is aluminum. Housing usually cracks where the input shaft splines in.
I just did a 727 and there is NO comparison in strength. The 727 is a monster. 4L80e is the only unit that compares in strength. Its up to you guys but I KNOW the 700,4L6X units and their weaknesses. Now if you are using a 4L8X based unit, then NO WORRIES as it is the old TH400 with overdrive added onto the FRONT of the geartrain whereas mopar added OD onto the REAR of the 727 geartrain.

[bugsdad]

http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/aftermarket.php

The simple shift is a "standalone" unit that requires NO laptop to program it. The other unit requires a laptop to program. I always used the laptop style programmable unit from PCS when I did the 4L80e conversions. It is an amazing unit with tons of control. It is so good, TCI ditched their old DFI based transmission controller and went to the PCS version and anodized it RED. Very pretty. The SAME unit with the correct program and wire harness can control about ANYTHING. The unit is compatible with the TCI steering wheel mounted paddle shifter of course since they are the SAME units.

Here's the PCS paddleshifter if I did the link right.

[brads70]

http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/aftermarket.php

The simple shift is a "standalone" unit that requires NO laptop to program it. The other unit requires a laptop to program. I always used the laptop style programmable unit from PCS when I did the 4L80e conversions. It is an amazing unit with tons of control. It is so good, TCI ditched their old DFI based transmission controller and went to the PCS version and anodized it RED. Very pretty. The SAME unit with the correct program and wire harness can control about ANYTHING. The unit is compatible with the TCI steering wheel mounted paddle shifter of course since they are the SAME units.

Here's the PCS paddleshifter if I did the link right.

Thanks for the input!    Do you know if the simple shift will work with the twist machine paddle shifter? My thoughts were maybe down the road ( once the bank accont gets built up again  ) looking into paddle shift if I can make it work with my tuff wheel?
http://www.twistmachine.com/Paddle_Shifters.html

[ragtopdodge]

For the price of the Keister unit, you might as well get this sucker (requires cutting, but more bad ass and comes w/the paddle thing):

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-271600P/?rtype=10


Man, that's a lot of coin.  I'm hoping to get my 2-wire, non-lockup, $150 core A518 all done, everything, under $2500.  Including a 10" 3000+ 'verter.

[brads70]

For the price of the Keister unit, you might as well get this sucker (requires cutting, but more bad ass and comes w/the paddle thing):

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/TCI-271600P/?rtype=10


Man, that's a lot of coin.  I'm hoping to get my 2-wire, non-lockup, $150 core A518 all done, everything, under $2500.  Including a 10" 3000+ 'verter.

$2000 more and you have to cut up the floor to make it fit. Ya it is a lot of coin....

[ajantics]

I forgot to bring this up before but I think I remember someone asking about the paddle shifter that Keisler offered. The paddle shifter and the transmission ccomputer are both made by http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/
The only downside I see so far with the paddle shifter is that I could not use my Mopar tuff steering wheel because of the bolt pattern you have to use a universal 6bolt wheel.

[brads70]

I forgot to bring this up before but I think I remember someone asking about the paddle shifter that Keisler offered. The paddle shifter and the transmission ccomputer are both made by http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/
The only downside I see so far with the paddle shifter is that I could not use my Mopar tuff steering wheel because of the bolt pattern you have to use a universal 6bolt wheel.

I think ( not 100% sure?) the twist machine paddle shifter can work with the tuff wheel?

[bugsdad]

Thanks for the input!    Do you know if the simple shift will work with the twist machine paddle shifter? My thoughts were maybe down the road ( once the bank accont gets built up again  ) looking into paddle shift if I can make it work with my tuff wheel?
http://www.twistmachine.com/Paddle_Shifters.html

Yes. It will work. Its just a momentary signal. You could make your own with a couple momentary switches if you wanted to. Some of the syty guys used the Grant steering wheels and just used the button on each side of the steering wheel. Left up shift, right down shift. Very versatile unit.

But NO....do not use a 4L6Xe behind a big block. Too much torque. Build a 518 up  to 618 specs. Much cheaper. Especially if you use a 47rH. No computer controls needed and you keep the strength of the 727.

[jordan]

What mods are done in the Keisler trans?  Especially the high torque/hp version?  I would hope it is not stock?  Keislers cuda has the auto, and has driven across the county, done autocross, and then has done a lot of passes at the dragstrip.  I haven't heard that it exploded, especially at a public event.  People love to bag on somebody, so it couldn't possibly stay a secret.  Is keislers product weak?  I still haven't heard bad.  Im not saying that the GM product is inherently stronger or weaker, just saying I haven't heard anything bad.  Quite the opposite has been told to me.  Thats why I am waiting to put one behind my big block.  Plus I don't have to cut up my trans tunnel. 

[bugsdad]

I'm not baggin on Keisler in any manner whatsoever. Im sure he offers an 80e as well. What I'm saying is that it does not matter what you do to a 60/70 series transmission it will still have an aluminum input drum to crack, a little bitty sprag, and a reaction carrier shaft that has a paper thin sidewall. I've built them. I've done 4340 input shafts,output shafts, welded in water jetted reinforcements for the overrun clutch hub, 5 pinion planetaries, reinforced the input drum, added clutches, etc. The sprag is a weak design and there is not enough room to fix it. I had an input drum design to address the issue. I was gonna handle it in a similar way that dodge did with their OD sprag. I was gonna stack 2 elements, double the forward clutches and make the input drum out of 4340....they wanted $2500 just to machine the drum. Cost prohibitive. These are fine until you hook up. Especially after a burnout. High stall converters soften the shift if you leave them unlocked. That is how most handle the issue. It is not recommended to manually shift a 4L6x trans. 80e you can beat on all damn day and not hurt it. I've done 80e's with 300m input shafts,main shafts,a custom 2nd gear piston, and stock planetaries with RAybestos blues in the overdrive and altos in the rest of the trans along with transgo hd2 kit and a 5 clutch lockup converter from Precision and they have taken as high as 1500 hp and 1350 foot pounds of torque in AWD apps. Just not a comparison. Get Keisler's 80e option and you will be happy. I'm sure he does a smaller bellhousing that bolts on so you don't have to chop anything up. They even run 80e's in the Toyota Supra's with very little mods and a smaller bellhousing. Yes, in tiny Toyotas...so I'm sure it will fit a Challenger.

Here is an install link going into a tiny Supra. See how the bellhousing bolts on? Very small.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?498270-SP-4L80E-auto-tranny-install-(updated-as-install-progresses)

These guys have them in BB and SB configurations.
http://www.extremeautomatics.net/4L80E.aspx

[brads70]

I'm not baggin on Keisler in any manner whatsoever. Im sure he offers an 80e as well. What I'm saying is that it does not matter what you do to a 60/70 series transmission it will still have an aluminum input drum to crack, a little bitty sprag, and a reaction carrier shaft that has a paper thin sidewall. I've built them. I've done 4340 input shafts,output shafts, welded in water jetted reinforcements for the overrun clutch hub, 5 pinion planetaries, reinforced the input drum, added clutches, etc. The sprag is a weak design and there is not enough room to fix it. I had an input drum design to address the issue. I was gonna handle it in a similar way that dodge did with their OD sprag. I was gonna stack 2 elements, double the forward clutches and make the input drum out of 4340....they wanted $2500 just to machine the drum. Cost prohibitive. These are fine until you hook up. Especially after a burnout. High stall converters soften the shift if you leave them unlocked. That is how most handle the issue. It is not recommended to manually shift a 4L6x trans. 80e you can beat on all damn day and not hurt it. I've done 80e's with 300m input shafts,main shafts,a custom 2nd gear piston, and stock planetaries with RAybestos blues in the overdrive and altos in the rest of the trans along with transgo hd2 kit and a 5 clutch lockup converter from Precision and they have taken as high as 1500 hp and 1350 foot pounds of torque in AWD apps. Just not a comparison. Get Keisler's 80e option and you will be happy. I'm sure he does a smaller bellhousing that bolts on so you don't have to chop anything up. They even run 80e's in the Toyota Supra's with very little mods and a smaller bellhousing. Yes, in tiny Toyotas...so I'm sure it will fit a Challenger.

Here is an install link going into a tiny Supra. See how the bellhousing bolts on? Very small.
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/showthread.php?498270-SP-4L80E-auto-tranny-install-(updated-as-install-progresses)

These guys have them in BB and SB configurations.
http://www.extremeautomatics.net/4L80E.aspx

Some good reading thanks for the links!
Keisler doesn't offer a 4L80 option. I'm sure the 80 is stronger no doubt. I'm not into cutting up the floor at this point. Another thing is the 80's first gear is not as attractive as the 60/65 for street use. I don't live anywhere near a drag strip and I doubt my car will ever have slicks on it . Just a street car. If I break the 60/65 then ya I'll have to look at my options then.

[bugsdad]

People dont cut the floor up. The conversions I did had 700r4/4L60 and the 80e was just 3.25" longer. So it was just a matter of moving your mounting point back 3.25" and shortening the driveshaft 3.25". The shifter cable and stock 700r4/60e linkage bolts right to the side of the 80e. I know you have already made your purchase but just letting others know that read this that an 80e is no big deal and it looks like the 80e has aftermarket support with bellhousing adaptors ready to go. You have a good easter!!!!