Author Topic: Frame Rail Repair Methods?  (Read 6155 times)

Offline larry4406

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Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« on: February 07, 2012 - 06:29:32 AM »
My 71 vert has some rot in the frame rails.  Not real interested in replacing the entire frame rail with a repop.  I know AutoRust Technicians sells a rail cap.

Has anyone traced the rails and made their own 3 piece cap/overlay?  Would appear rather straightforward.  What gauge metal would you use?  Plug welds for attachment?  How have you done your repairs?

Sorry no pictures at hand.




Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012 - 02:19:34 PM »
Caps are ugly and not appropriate for a desirable, high-dollar car like a 'vert.

Don't want to put in a repop?  Put in a OEM, used rail from a donor.
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
04 2500 QCLB 4x4 HO

Offline dutch

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012 - 05:20:36 PM »
how about some pics of the rail...
*** Bart ***

Offline jimynick

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012 - 05:35:52 PM »
Caps are ugly and not appropriate for a desirable, high-dollar car like a 'vert.

Don't want to put in a repop?  Put in a OEM, used rail from a donor.
 :iagree:  With the amount of work to fab such a Frankenstein thing up, you could section the bad portion out using the aforementioned A/M or OEM parts, butt weld them in and preserve both the structural and cosmetic integrity of that desirable car while further preserving your own rep as not being a butcher, which surely you aren't.  :thumbsup:

Offline GCC

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012 - 09:06:28 PM »
Depends on how extensive the rotted section are.  I had rust-thru on the front frame rails right at the torque box areas, but it was localized and I was able to butt-weld rectangular patches.  I would stay away from the caps; you are better off fabricating replacement pieces or replacing the entire rail, even though either of these is a lot more time.

Offline larry4406

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2012 - 09:26:46 PM »
Looking for ideas regarding repair in place vs replacement.  Not really a repop vs used issue, more a matter of skill (mine).  Car will be a clone, proudly displaying its original tag for all to decode and pronounce a clone, and not a trailer queen.

From inside the engine compartment with engine in place, you can't see the rails, so being capped is not visual.  Peer in from the wheel wells, then might see if you know what you are looking for.

If ever sold and someone hates the caps, they can then R&R the capped rail, so no harm done right?

Sorry no pics, on travel this month.

Offline Cuda416

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2012 - 08:26:37 AM »
In my humble opinion, and believe me I am no expert, but it seems like a 'cap' is just asking for trouble down the road. One more tight space (between the cap and what's left of the rail) to rust all over again. The caps I have seen fit over the original rail and so to me doesn't sound like a good repair at all.

-C
70' Barracuda conv. (project)

Offline Final Challenge

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2012 - 10:03:42 AM »
Depending on how bad the rot is, I just cut out the rot until I have solid thick metal.  Then I fit a piece of metal in through the hole I made that is larger than the hole I made. Once it is positioned in a manner to overlap all the areas that I need to but weld, I add a few holes with a drill so that I can rosette a few welds to the new steel.


Then I get a piece of cardboard and fold it over the area that needs to be patched. I trim away the cardboard until it fits like a piece of a 3 D puzzle.  Sometimes the piece fits both sides and the bottom of the rail.  I then trace out the shape on a similar thickness of metal, cut it out, and bend it to the shape it has to be. Trial fit the steel patch until it can be butt welded into place.  Tack weld it in with additional shaping and hammering when required. Finish welding and grind.  Add  more weld to fill in if required, grind, sand, prime, etc. 

Quite often the repair will look as good as an original frame.  The piece of metal that I use on the inside of the hole allows the butt welds to be a nice hot pentrating weld. Just take your time welding and enjoy doing the repair.

A plasma cutter makes the job fast and easy, but a cutoff wheel and grinder can also do the job.

Offline Challenger III

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012 - 10:09:05 AM »
I think you would find removing the rusty area and patching, just as easy as capping over a rusty frame rail.
Mike    Yakima, Washington

Resto Thread:  http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=66668.0

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012 - 10:59:10 AM »
Anyone know what gauge steel the factory frame is at the "T" location? Mine need attention as well.
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

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Offline jimynick

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2012 - 11:24:07 PM »
I think the rails are 18ga. but don't take that to the bank.  :2cents:

Offline larry4406

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2012 - 06:11:13 AM »
Keep the ideas/suggestions coming.  Do any of you have progress pictures of the techniques being discussed?

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2012 - 01:06:27 PM »
I think the rails are 18ga. but don't take that to the bank.  :2cents:

18 gauge is more like body panel thickness. The rails should be 14 or 16 gauge in most places.

Swapping the whole rail out isn't as hard as it sounds. Of course, if you don't want to go repop then you'd have to find an orignal. But, because everything is spot welded together, it gives you a map of where the rail should be. Plus, you have the K member, radiator shroud and brace, inner fender etc to help locate the replacement. Obviously, you still have to measure, but the measurements are out there. Keep in mind too that the standards aren't as tight as you think, +/- a 1/4" isn't uncommon. If you have a MIG welder, a flat concrete garage floor, a few measuring instruments and some patience the rail swap isn't that bad, and will usually take LESS welding than a patch.

If you go with caps, anyone buying the car in the future will assume all the rails are swiss cheese underneath them. And, they might not be wrong. Not saying that a good repair can't be done using caps, but they can also be used to hide a bad, or NO repair at all. If the car is rotisserie blasted, the rust removed, and the caps applied and sealed up, the rust should stay away. But that's not how caps are usually done, in many cases they're slapped on over the rusty rails and welded on with minimal treatment to the original rail. When used like that, they're a temporary fix. And most buyer's will assume that's what was done. Plus, they're really obvious. Maybe not driving down the road, but anyone that inspects the car beyond a casual glance will notice them.

If you really don't want to mess with the whole rail, or only one section is bad, then I'd cut out the section until you hit good metal. Then I'd clean and prep as much of the surrounding area, including the inside of the rail, for as far as I could get. Then, use the method Final Challenge mentioned. I use manilla folders usually, they're cheap, closer to the right thickness, and flexible. Trace out the patch on the card stock and transfer it to metal, leaving the patch a little too big. Then just trim it until it fits and weld it in place. Done properly, it should be as strong as the original rail. If you're concerned, you can always reinforce it with a secondary patch over the top, like a gusset plate. But, keep in mind this will change how the frame flexes too. And, keep in mind that once you start cutting, you may end up taking out more metal to get to good rail than you want. If you're patching more than 6-8" of rail, or having to replace 3 sides of the channel for any length, its going to get more difficult.

Offline 74BlueFish

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Re: Frame Rail Repair Methods?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2012 - 07:20:21 PM »
I repaired my rails with a scab patch when I first started to repair the car.   Now that the car is completely disassembled, I'm repairing with butt welds.   Here's how it came out.   Took me 3 hours to do one side.



My old patches put on when car was assembled

Cut out old patch

Paper template made up

Metal cut to fit

Welding in side plates

Side plates weld in, ready to trim to match contour of frame rail

Bottom cap half way welded in .  Ready to trim far side and finish weld


Finished welded and sanding done, ready for primer.
Still have a lot more rust to remove,  but the rail definitely looks much better.
Dan