Author Topic: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?  (Read 23989 times)

Offline brads70

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Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« on: February 20, 2012 - 01:56:08 PM »
I was over on Moparts and found a post about composite rear leaf springs that I found interesting! They drastically reduce weight and are avaialable in a few different rates!
Anyone running them in here?
Got me to wondering what I could sell my 2 year old espo set up for.... :naughty:


http://www.hypercoils.com/leaf-springs.html
http://www.hypercoils.com/catalog.html#Page10   pages 17-18 has the Chrysler springs.
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0




Offline Geoff1200

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2012 - 04:31:27 PM »
I used a set on my corvette several years ago, seemed OK for the couple years I had the car...

Offline brads70

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012 - 08:02:42 PM »
I've been doing some "research" on these. I asked a guy who just bought a set to weight them and his reply was 10 LBS each!  :2thumbs:  Great way to take 50-80LBS? of unsprung weight off a car and they are available in different rates!  I'm thinking the 175LBS rate would be good!
They are only available in superstocklengtht  ( 2" shorter front segment) so you would need to get a commonly available relocation kit.
I'm liking this........ :bigsmile:      :working:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012 - 08:30:06 PM »
 :popcorn: Sounds great!

Any more info or opinions?
"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012 - 10:31:15 PM »
The GM astro vans had them & they invariably failed & splintered

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline brads70

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012 - 04:58:59 AM »
The GM astro vans had them & they invariably failed & splintered
Hummm I wonder what they were made of ? Fiberglass or composite? I've had a few friends with those vans and never heard of them having trouble? For years Corvettes have had them too.
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline HP2

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012 - 12:47:15 PM »
I know vettes have used these for decades. I wasn't aware of astro vans using them, nor any associated failures of their use, but I can't say I'm real hip to keeping up on astro vans either.

One issue with composite springs is that they are suspectible to damage and must be protected. Just like a torsion bar, damage to them creates stress riser that can lead to failure. In a vette, the leaf is transverse and sitting on top of the diff way up in the chassis. This affords them a pretty high measure of protection compared to the astro van, or mopar application, where they are sitting out wide, low, and close to the road. Most reputable manufactures will suggest you protect composite leafs with a wrap to avoid any trouble. This could be as simple as wrapping them with duct tape, or as trick as using a shrink wrap.

Speaking of manufactuers, composite leafs are offerd by Hypercoil, Afco, Landrum, and Speedway. I don't know but they may all be made at the same place and marketed through those distributors. In any case, there are alternate suppliers out there. Also with the marketing, most, if not all of these, as are most mopar oval track springs, are based on the Direct Connection oval track design from the early-mid 70s.

Mopars oval track springs are actually designed with a 20.5" front segment. By comparison, stock B and E bodies use a 22" segment and Super Stock uses a 20" segment. So they are not a direct replacement for either, but the half inch variation from the SS design is typically not a big deal in either tire clearence in the wheel well or driveshaft slip joint fit. I've got SS hangers in my car with the oval track springs and they fit just fine.I have spoken to one guy with them who didn't like the look of the half inch varaition, so your mileage may vary.  When looking at the short segment from the perspective of drag race vs handling, it provides a similar function; the shorter segment firms up the spring and provides traction assistance when launching from the starting line or accellerating out of a corner. The shorter segment also has demonstrated less dynamic wheelbase changes during cornering so roll steer characteritics become more stablized and predicatable. So like drag car, a properly set up leaf spring based mopar stock car would lift slightly under accelleration.

Brad, to your offline question about relocation impacts on handling, it is fairly minor. When figuring out the rate balance on my car, I did models of stock spring location, 1" inboard per side, and 3" inboard per side. The change in location and the resulting change in leverage means a 1" relocation causes the spring to loose an effective rate amount that is around 15-17# per side. A 3" change would be double that or 30-34# per side. IMO, these are pretty negligible changes, especially the 1" version which allows more than enough tire to prefectly fill the wheel well. Heck, even GM based oval track springs are only available in 100# increments so the odds are very high most of use will never notice a 15 to 30 pound change in rate.

TC

Offline brads70

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012 - 05:11:01 PM »
Thanks HP2!

I wonder how a spray on bed liner would work, or rubberized spay on undercoating, or that rocker guard chip coating junk ( that I curse when used on cars)  would work to protect them?

With mine being a big block, I figure the 175Lbs rating would be a good start for a street car? Hotchkis says theirs are 160LBS?
I've been reading about replacing the bushings with bearings and some use sliders on the rear as well as pan hard  or watts link?


I notice they are used ( composite leaf springs) also on those sprinter vans and some Volvo's too?
They are used quite a bit on dirt circle track cars.

Found this company that will make what ever you want also in carbon fiber?  $$$????
http://www.heathcotes.com/compositesprings.html
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012 - 05:29:07 PM by brads70 »
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline PlumCraZRT

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012 - 05:17:07 PM »
Hummm I wonder what they were made of ? Fiberglass or composite?

Fiberglass, cabon fiber, etc are all considered composites.  Composite basically means there is a polymer medium holding everything together.

My first thought it that they would creep (or "sag") over time.
mmmmm.... Mopar.... *drool*

Offline brads70

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Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012 - 07:41:43 PM »
Wow.  Thanks for the link.  :cheers:
That did really answer some questions I had about these.

Really looks like I would purchase a set of hyperco's springs.
Seems well worth the weight savings.

"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline brads70

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012 - 07:52:50 PM »
Wow.  Thanks for the link.  :cheers:
That did really answer some questions I had about these.

Really looks like I would purchase a set of hyperco's springs.
Seems well worth the weight savings.


Ya me too. I figure on getting them coated with spray on bedliner to protect them from road debris.
I have one of these locations hear me.
http://www.line-xicd.com/user_pages/home_0.shtml?page=Home#
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012 - 07:57:58 PM »
I like it. 
Looks like they will paint just about any color also.

Have you purchased a set of these yet?
"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline brads70

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012 - 08:07:30 PM »
I like it. 
Looks like they will paint just about any color also.

Have you purchased a set of these yet?
No not yet. You will also need different front hangers too .FYI?

I priced them local and a stock car ( circle track supplier) and they were $380 each taxes in. I think I'll get a pair sent to the inlaws in PA and save at least $160.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012 - 08:09:20 PM by brads70 »
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline PlumCraZRT

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Re: Anyone in here using composite leaf springs?
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2012 - 08:53:02 PM »
Ya me too. I figure on getting them coated with spray on bedliner to protect them from road debris.
I have one of these locations hear me.
http://www.line-xicd.com/user_pages/home_0.shtml?page=Home#


Some people on the Moparts forum said they had issues with cracking.  If you ever planned on inspecting your springs for cracking, the spray coating would make it impossible.   :2cents:
mmmmm.... Mopar.... *drool*