aar / t/a question

[Mopar Mitch]

Although MY T/A is not a factory original, it handles better than ANY original T/A, or AAR... I built it to the extreme limits of the SCCA E/Street Prepared class for Solo II national competition... and have won many regional championships to prove it!

['Cuda Hunter]

I am not saying that all AAR's and T/A's had the rolled fenders.
There is not a piece of paper that I have ever seen to show this.

However, I have seen several that do have the rolled fenders.
I have been told that there were not enough rolled fenders for the whole production so they got put together on some of the cars.
Do believe that more were built without the rolled fenders than with.

However, they were all supposed to have them.
When I had an aar, I tried like mad to get my hands on a set of these. 
Actually could have purchased a few of the sets but the price was kind of, well, very high.
Hemi guys pay top dollar for these. 

[KFD]

Although MY T/A is not a factory original, it handles better than ANY
original T/A, or AAR... I built it to the extreme limits of the SCCA
E/Street Prepared class for Solo II national competition... and have won
many regional championships to prove it!

MoparMitch, do you have more pictures of your car!?  I really want to see more of your car... That avatar looks WICKED!!!!

So the debate is still out there on the rolled fenders, but if that is the
case, the A53s and Radio-Deletes have a unique passenger's side fender-the
antenna mast was moved to the rear quarter panel, in the belief that the
fiberglass hood impeded radio reception.

KFD

[Cuda Cody]

A couple quotes from a thread on Moparts about rolled fenders....


From Barry (the one guy who probably has seen / knows of more T/A's than anyone else...  "I have still not seen any proof of rolled fenders from the factory.  If someone has some, I am sure that we would all love to see it?  Barry "

Another quote from Jeff who runs the AAR registry  "From talking to a supervisor from the hamtramck plant who also worked on the assembly line during the run of the AAR's and T/A's he said the rolled lip fenders were made with a special jig designed by Creative Industries. This was one job on the assembly line that if someone had called off work and someone was needed to cover a more important job that person was pulled and fenders didn't get done. Even though the fender tag are stamped hemi fender not all hemi cars had them..just like not all AAR's and T/A's had them... In fact i've seen quite a few original cars that have one fender with a rolled lip and one with out. My AAR was a 47,000 original mile car and the fenders didn't have the rolled lip. I see you reference the parts books.. Please keep in mind not everything they put in those books is or was gospel. There's far too much stuff in those books that's incorrect and or misleading. I always like to use the many 71 Hemi carbs they list. We can quote the book on many many things but I like to use the book(s) along with true original 1 owner cars that are almost completely untouched to judge how and what these cars left the factory with. Almost completely means aside from belts and hoses and possibly tires everything else is as it was when it left factory."

Sounds like there were some done at the factory by hand for the Hemi cars and maybe even a few early T/A and AAR's.

[HP2]

thanks, my thought was;  what can be applied to the standard models with-out much time or cost?  I think they mentioned a very stiff ride, so there must be some trade-offs to curve handling.

Yes, a standard E body can be made to handle like the AA/TA cars. You actually can improve upon the handling of the trans am cars to be honest, but it is a trade off with effort and money. None of it is free or low cost, per say, except maybe alignment specifications. Pretty extensive discussion about here here: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=32717.0

['Cuda Hunter]

Thanks for the link HP. 

Cody, I was under the understanding that the fenders were a later part of the t/a run.  Not in the beginning.
Mostly because the tires were rubbing when they first put them on the track.
Then they figured they would roll the fenders so the tires didn't rub on hard corners.

At least Jeff has seen some and knows people who were in the factory.
I couldn't bring up Creative industries for the life of my memory. Glad you found that.

Here's one.

I passed on it because I was looking for a set of cuda one's.
Wouldn't pass on it now.

[GranCuda1970]

Very interesting.

[JH27N0B]

Thats actually a picture of a fender I posted here or on Moparts several years ago.  I bought it from a Dodge dealer in 1980 when I was "restoring" my T/A as I had read in various places that T/As came with special 15" fenders.  This fender is a '71 style fender with the rectangular cutout above the headlight bezel area, so its certainly not a "T/A" fender.  I still have the car and its been away from home for years with its stalled out restoration, but I have the fender here at home as its wrong and not going back on the car if anyone is interested in buying it.
The other fender on the car is original and its not rolled.  I have an old crash parts Chrysler part number list and it actually had 3 sets of fender part numbers listed for Challengers, standard, T/A, and hemi.  So the debate continues as to what if anything was unique to the T/A fender.  Of course the passenger one wouldn't have an antennae hole, but not sure if anything else is different from the standard.
Some posters have stated the trans am cars had fast ratio steering which isn't completely true.  There was a fast ratio power steering option available, but also regular power steering and manual steering.  My car has manual steering and there is nothing special about it even though it is on a T/A.

['Cuda Hunter]

I thought that part number was odd for what I thought that one was.
I have several pictures.  Actually i have saved every picture I could of the rolled fenders.
That one came up first.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Did you have this for sale a few years ago?
That would be where I got the picture from.

Not trying to misrepresent here.  Not trying to ruffle feathers either.

[JH27N0B]

I've never listed the fender for sale as I don't know what to ask for it, or want to deal with the hassle of trying to ship a fender!  It's down in my boiler room along with my T/A's rusty original decklid and beat up front valence, and those parts will still probably be sitting there 10 years from now!
But I do recall posting pictures of it on Moparts during a discussion of rolled fenders there, probably 5 or 6 years ago,  it's leaning against my old Ram and you can see the house next door where American Idol winner Lee DeWyze grew up. 

[JH27N0B]

I started to mention before, the passenger side fender on my T/A was not replaced when I replaced the drivers side one 30 years ago, as the passenger side was NS1 then.  I believe the passenger side to be original to the car and it is not rolled or any different than a standard fender that I can tell, other than having no antennae hole.  My car is a late build, 4/15/70, and it was one of a group of 4 identically optioned T/A's built sequentially, its twin brother with the VIN 2 past mine is here in the area, is a "survivor" and neither fender is rolled.
I heard stories they were testing a hemi cuda at the track in Chelsea early on and blew a front tire doing some hard braking tests when the wheel lip cut into a tire, that is what led to the fix of rolling the front fenders on hemi cars, the "hemi fender".
Hemi E bodies had F60's in front, trans am cars had E 60's.  E60s were optional on all non hemi R/T's, A66's, cudas, so why would they roll the fenders on Trans am cars but not any E body with the optional E60's?
 

[JH27N0B]

Here is a picture I took of the drivers side fender on #3 of "the quadruplets", 2 VIN's past mine, SBD 4/15/70 and unrestored.

[Jocigar]

Yes, a standard E body can be made to handle like the AA/TA cars. You actually can improve upon the handling of the trans am cars to be honest, but it is a trade off with effort and money. None of it is free or low cost, per say, except maybe alignment specifications. Pretty extensive discussion about here here: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=32717.0

   anyone, if you could perform one mod to standard that made the biggest difference for touring, what would it be?   In the other post it mentions re-welding all the seams?     

A car show on TV turned and new challenger into a convertible, and they added strength to the frame by welding a thin square bar to the inside of the rocker panel that ran the length of the middle section.... thinking about doing this since it wont be very noticable from stock.     

[Jamiez]

Are you talking about subframe connectors and torque boxes?  A lot of people have added those to their cars.  A search should turn up a lot of threads on how to do that/people who have done it.

[Jocigar]

Reading threads last night... it appears that re-welding every seam on the k-memeber will provide a noticable difference in handling. 

I may do the same everywhere the frame rails connect to other panels... should also help     anything else already on chassis that should be reinforced?  What about the cross brace that goes from firewall to the engine side panels?  Torque boxes already exist on my frame.

If it truly works, it is something that requires no add on's, just welding time.... Good stuff to know/share    (too bad my k frame is already painted and assembled  )