Here's a question (might be dumb...)

[cudabeforeIdie]

So someday I find my 71 hemi 'cuda, and its numbers matching, original motor, etc. and I'm over the moon.

How much of that motor, or any part of the car for that matter, can you replace and still represent the car as 'original'?
By parts I mean parts that have failed/broken, pistons, rods, whatever.

thanks guys

Laurie

[GranCuda1970]

To be exact you would want to find era replacements. Most would attemp this route,... But as long as the block is origional, I think that is all you need for Nummer matching value retention.

[Gumby]

That is a really touchy subject. There is a thread on Moparts right now dealing with this same issue. Some say if the car is rusted out and replaced with all new panels, or using another car to replace everything is a rebody. As long as the motor is original, even with new parts, I wouldn't think that there would be a problem. But one would be wise to disclose all facts. Even if the motor was a factory replacement I wouldn't think that there would be a problem. Some people are sticklers for details, though. As far as body replacement panels, parts and all the millions of little details - well, that would be up to you, as a buyer. New carpet? Not original. New seat skins? not original. How far are you willing to take it? I would just drive it and enjoy it. If you are spending the insane money for "all original" then you are not going to be driving it and enjoying it anyway. It will be locked in a vault. Hopefully not the one they dug that old car out of a few years back! Chebby people have it SO easy. No one cares what theirs is, as there were a gallzillion of each and every one of them made. (ok - SOME might care a little bit) (I've got just one of 94,000 Nova SS with this paint scheme! lol) Many shops back in the day did whatever they could just to keep an old heap going. ie, rebody. You will never be able to track that stuff down and make it factory new without buildsheets, fendertags and someone that drove it around the lot a few times. You aren't going to live forever. So don't spend insane money, and just enjoy it. Let the heirs fight over it when you are gone. You will get the last laugh! Otherwise, Steve Juliano might be able to help you out. He has some nice rare stuff. Umm... Why do you ask? lol!

[Super Blue 72]

I guess if you really want to be a stickler, all of the engine.  There are some cars out there that claim their whole engine is original except for the oil, air/oil filter and plugs.  Seen a car here and there that claim to still have the original spark pluag wires and cap.  Possible?  Sure it it's a low mile car. 

So the question is how original do you want the car to be.  As GranCuda1970 said, for numbers matching, you'll need the block and I would imagine just anything else that is factory looking.

As far as the rest of the car, again if being a stickler, all of it.  It would be deemed as a "survivor" car.  A car that still has the majority if not all of the original paint, all the body parts (interior/exterior), I've seen some cars that still have the original tires on it.  So it depends how far you want to carry that definition.

[torredcuda]

They are only 100% original once,after that they are restored.Numbers matching means body,vin tag,engine block and trans case numbers match,other than that it doesn`t really matter unless you are looking for a "correct" date coded resto.

[cudabeforeIdie]

Hey guys, great info, thanks!

I read so many of the threads here, especially those of you who are blessed enough to own a piece of history, and are restoring them. Finding a 'genuine' part for an 'original' engine seems a tough task. And then you've just bought a 40+ year old part! It would be my intent, when the Mopar Gods bless me someday, to drive that 'cuda like it was intended. Pissing off the cops and waking up the neighbors! With a car that may have been dormant for an excessive period of time, I'm assuming stuff is going to break as it wakes up. Just wanted to know what would be acceptable when the time comes. This is will be MY car, not for sale, ever. But I'd like to remain as true as possible to its heritage without that hindering my ability to drive it regularly. ie waiting for parts.

Would it be sinful to put a new crate motor into car because the 'original' motor would require too much work and money to rebuild it? Or is it worth the time and money to remain true to the car?

Just wondering....   just dreaming!

Laurie

[Jamiez]

I've seen cars sold that have a modern engine installed, but come with the original engine/trans.  This is a great compromise (assuming you have the space) because it allows you to drive the car with some more modern features, but still keeps the option to restore it to stock if you (or someone else) wanted to.

As for parts, some survive better than others, things like intakes (which do not have a VIN just a date code and casting number) tend to last. Carbs are usually an option as well, as they were designed to be rebuilt. Valve covers, manifolds, even air cleaners are still kicking around.  Wires, belts, hoses and the like typically don't.

Beyond numbers matching is the OE style restoration.  Those are the restorations that put the original grease pencil marks back on parts, worry about bolts with the correct finishes, put a spare set of keys in the original envelope in the console, etc.   Those type of cars are museum quality and pretty much never get driven. 

[06Daytona]

If you want something to drive then find a 318 car and drop a Hemi in it. You can paint the car the color you want, give it the options you want and still have fun. In my opinion, if you find a real Hemi car you've found a rare piece of history and it's almost sacrilegious to do anything other than what the fender tag/ buildsheet says which means that it might not be your favorite color, or have or not have other options you want. There's a guy in PR with 2 Hemi cars, one a low mile original Hemi Roadrunner and the other a 318 Satellite that he dropped a Hemi in. The real Hemi car gets driven onto and off the trailer and that's about it, the clone gets driven like it's stolen because he took a car he liked and made it car he loves.

[usraptr]

If you watch Barrett-Jackson, numbers matching cars with "original" sheet metal are considered more valuable than ones that have had body panels replaced.  However, that being said, I've seen several resto-mods go for more $ than a matching number similar year car.  Just depends on what the buyer wants and the quality of the build. 

[Super Blue 72]

Would it be sinful to put a new crate motor into car because the 'original' motor would require too much work and money to rebuild it? Or is it worth the time and money to remain true to the car?

I don't know if it would be sinful, but depending on the engine, some may argue that a rebuild may be the cheaper way to go.  I guesss it would depende on the individual situation.  Some people like to take the numbers matching engine out, prop it up on a stand in the corner of the garage and pop in an engine that they can "play with".  They can always claim to still have the matching numbers engine, it's just not in the car.  This give you the option to go for a stroker engine without worrying about mixing up non stock parts or cranks that weren't meant to be in that block from the factory and such.  Some people want to go small block stroker to save weight but get more power.  You can still make it look stock, a good option if you have a small block car. 

[cudabeforeIdie]

I don't know if it would be sinful, but depending on the engine, some may argue that a rebuild may be the cheaper way to go.  I guesss it would depende on the individual situation.  Some people like to take the numbers matching engine out, prop it up on a stand in the corner of the garage and pop in an engine that they can "play with".  They can always claim to still have the matching numbers engine, it's just not in the car.  This give you the option to go for a stroker engine without worrying about mixing up non stock parts or cranks that weren't meant to be in that block from the factory and such.  Some people want to go small block stroker to save weight but get more power.  You can still make it look stock, a good option if you have a small block car. 

Phil, you just gave me a headache....  guess I still don't know enough about this.....
Back to my corner!

[AARuFAST]

My  I think it is all BS.
My friend has a 71 RR. V code 440-6 pac. he was heading to a car show.
Engine grenaded. Driving in traffic oil pressure failure.
He had another 440 block built and added his accessories from the grenaded engine.
The engine builder asked if he wanted the original engine code stamped on the block or
a blank.  Yes, it can be done.  I'll bet there are a lot of them out there.
There are many muscle cars with replacement engines due to drag racing or in my friends case,
 oil pressure failure or swap 6 cyl.
or 318 for the almighty H E M I.
Now is this car still original because of an unfortunate engine failure??
It still has a 440 engine not a 383 or hemi.  I think it is all BS.
Put a HEMI in it and the value doubles, but it is not original. WT . 
The HEMI is the culprit. Kill the HEMI 

[cudabeforeIdie]

My  I think it is all BS.
My friend has a 71 RR. V code 440-6 pac. he was heading to a car show.
Engine grenaded. Driving in traffic oil pressure failure.
He had another 440 block built and added his accessories from the grenaded engine.
The engine builder asked if he wanted the original engine code stamped on the block or
a blank.  Yes, it can be done.  I'll bet there are a lot of them out there.
There are many muscle cars with replacement engines due to drag racing or in my friends case,
 oil pressure failure or swap 6 cyl.
or 318 for the almighty H E M I.
Now is this car still original because of an unfortunate engine failure??
It still has a 440 engine not a 383 or hemi.  I think it is all BS.
Put a HEMI in it and the value doubles, but it is not original. WT . 
The HEMI is the culprit. Kill the HEMI 

But, but, but.... I want a hemi!!!!   

I think your friends car is still "original". If he was to sell it, it would be proper to say
its a replacement engine and state why. I think putting numbers on blocks like that
is cheating/lying, that's just me. Girl scout, Catholic school, etc.

If I found my perfect 'cuda, and it had a replacement engine, as long as it was the type
it was born with, I guess I'd be OK with that if I loved the car and could afford it. And I
may have just answered my original question too!

[AARCUDADEN]

If you want something to drive then find a 318 car and drop a Hemi in it. You can paint the car the color you want, give it the options you want and still have fun. In my opinion, if you find a real Hemi car you've found a rare piece of history and it's almost sacrilegious to do anything other than what the fender tag/ buildsheet says which means that it might not be your favorite color, or have or not have other options you want. There's a guy in PR with 2 Hemi cars, one a low mile original Hemi Roadrunner and the other a 318 Satellite that he dropped a Hemi in. The real Hemi car gets driven onto and off the trailer and that's about it, the clone gets driven like it's stolen because he took a car he liked and made it car he loves.

This is in my opinion the best advice for you Laurie.

[GranCuda1970]

Hemicuda clones are Bad arsed too!! And you can drive em. I have seen many at the carshows. Those big black wrinkled valve covers look good on a clone too!