Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?

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Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« on: April 22, 2012 - 02:09:42 PM »
Hello guys! I have a general question considering a conversion from auto to manual transmission. I'd like to know how complicated/difficult it is to do. Especially I am wondering if the pedal setup for the manual transmission is easy to be installed on an originally auto car. Is it necessary to make some breakthroughs in the wall separating the passenger compartement from the engine compartement? Is it much cutting and welding?
I am considering a purchase of a barracuda and wondering if I can buy an auto car (more of them are available) and convert it to manual.
If you have experience with this kind of modification I will be grateful If you share your knowlege with me by a short reply. Maybe you know a thread, which I didn't find yet, and which can give some answer to my questions. If so please post the link here.
Thanks!


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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2012 - 05:51:36 PM »
There are quite a few threads on the subject. The biggest thing isn't modifying the car, its finding the parts. Unless you just want to plunk down a big chunk of change for all new stuff.

You'll need:

A833 transmission (or 833 OD)
         - e body shift rods
         - shift mechanism w/shifter
         - e body shift plate

Big or small block bell housing
         - Shift fork and pivot

Flywheel
Clutch
4 speed pedals
4 speed transmission hump
        - shift boot
        - 4 speed carpet

Modified driveshaft
4 speed linkage
       - Z bar
       - clutch rod
       - clutch adjuster
       - Z bar mount bracket and ballstuds
       - bushings for linkage


I'm sure there's some things I've forgotten. As far as modifying the car, the 4 speed pedals bolt in, no modifications to the firewall. You will have to cut a hole in the floor though, because the shift linkage and shifter have to come through the floor. The 4 speed hump covers the hole in the floor. You also have to weld the Z bar mount bracket to the frame. The other issue you might run into is that not all of the crankshafts were drilled deep enough for the input shaft and bushing. You can get around this by using a later roller bearing pilot bushing, as it fits into the outer register of the crank. But if that's the case you'll have to shorten the input shaft slightly. If you have a 727 auto the driveshaft is the same, but if you have a 904 the driveshaft length is different. Can't recall if its longer or shorter, I found a used one out of a 4 speed car.

The floor is the only sheetmetal that has to be cut, and the 4 speed hump and the z bar bracket are the only things that has to be welded on. The input shaft bit can be tricky if the crank isn't drilled for a 4 speed, but shortening the input shaft is the only cutting if it needs to be done. The rest should bolt it.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012 - 09:35:15 PM by 72bluNblu »

Offline dodj

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2012 - 09:07:21 PM »
I'd like to know how complicated/difficult it is to do.
It is not complicated at all. Like blu'n'blu said, finding the parts will take a bit of time though. The only welding you will have to do is mounting the frame bracket for the Z-bar pivot and welding in the floor pan tunnel piece for the four speed. Other than that, it is all bolt-in.
A few minor changes to the electrical/starter interlock.
Scott
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2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2012 - 09:37:12 PM »
Good catch, I forgot about welding the 4 speed hump in. I suppose technically you could get away without welding it in, but it is supposed to be welded in.

Offline dodj

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2012 - 11:08:27 PM »
Good catch, I forgot about welding the 4 speed hump in. I suppose technically you could get away without welding it in, but it is supposed to be welded in.
Actually, I didn't weld mine in. Sheet metal screws and caulking. I have gone back and forth between auto and 4 speed four times now.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2012 - 11:58:42 PM »
Can be done in approx 15 hrs , one long day or two good days to complete it once you have all the correct parts collected .

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Offline 1970 RT Challenger 1970

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2012 - 01:34:52 PM »

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2012 - 03:40:02 PM »
Thanks for as many helpful replies guys! Now it’s gonna be easier to me to decide for an auto car. Your description is great blu’n’blu, thanks for that. I’m also grateful for all the other comments, it’s quite convincing. Actually, I would like to ask one more thing. When you are saying that it is going to be difficult to find parts you mean original parts, don’t you? I hope I will be able to purchase some replacement for the parts I cannot find. Is the kit from Brewer’s containing all required parts or is it still necessary to search for some other parts, even if you purchase the kit?


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Offline PlumCraZRT

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012 - 10:47:18 PM »
Don't forget the console!

If you have a console, you will need to swap that too, as the 4-spd console is different than the auto console.
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2012 - 12:52:36 AM »
Thanks for as many helpful replies guys! Now it’s gonna be easier to me to decide for an auto car. Your description is great blu’n’blu, thanks for that. I’m also grateful for all the other comments, it’s quite convincing. Actually, I would like to ask one more thing. When you are saying that it is going to be difficult to find parts you mean original parts, don’t you? I hope I will be able to purchase some replacement for the parts I cannot find. Is the kit from Brewer’s containing all required parts or is it still necessary to search for some other parts, even if you purchase the kit?

The kit should have everything you need if you decide to go that route. I think pretty much everything is reproduced anyway except for maybe the transmission itself. If you buy the kit though I would guess the only thing you might have to buy is the carpet


Don't forget the console!

If you have a console, you will need to swap that too, as the 4-spd console is different than the auto console.

The auto console can be turned into a 4 speed console. The only real difference is the top plate and a clearance cut out of the side. It might not be exactly the same as an original 4 speed console (ie, a restorer would still be able to tell the difference), but functionally it wouldn't matter.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2012 - 09:49:18 AM »
there is a list of the needed parts in the archive section

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Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012 - 01:29:46 PM »
You COULD go w/the Hydraulic throwout bearing route and then you won't need to weld the z-bracket on the frame rail.  More $$$, but a bit more room for header clearance.

And yes, the hump can be sheet metal screwed in.  That can be done, but eventually, for resale value, it's best if it welded in.


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Offline bigblue73

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2012 - 11:13:47 AM »
One key item - It take your time - Don't allow a weekend for this, you will only disappoint yourself.  I've done two auto to manual (5 speed) conversions and they normally take 3 to 4 days.  I always have something missing as well.  Another note is to obtain as much information from the factory manuals that you can.  If you don't have them already it can easily be worth the money to pick some up.

Offline IroquoisPliskin

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2012 - 03:43:03 PM »
Hello guys and thanks for posting here again! You know bigblue I think that it’s not that bad to me if the work on the conversion won’t be finished within 15 hours, but going to take few days more. Actually I wanted to know if that work can be done easily and if the car’s body has to be modified strongly for this. Except that it is good to know that all required part can be purchased easily if necessary. All the replies were very helpful at that question :2thumbs:. As I am still looking for a car and I know that it shall be a manual car, I wanted to figure out if it is worth to take to consideration a purchase of an auto car, due to the fact that it is easier to find one, and convert it to manual. And it looks like it is.


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Offline 71chmark

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Re: Auto to manual conversion: how difficult?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2012 - 05:26:16 PM »
Like they have said.  You won't believe how easy it is.  I have minimal skills and I did it.  Good luck.  Oh so fun to drive.
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