SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!

Author Topic: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!  (Read 189716 times)

Offline 2TAGS

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012 - 06:41:17 PM »
wow..... :popcorn:
1971 'Cuda 340




Offline spamtank

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2012 - 09:03:52 AM »
This work is amazing, and I think the incredulous attitude of the judge clearly attests to the accuracy of your restoration. 

I've enjoying all of your posts and the discussions.

Rick in NH
Rick, Manchester, NH
1970 SE 383 2V AT Challenger
1977 M882/W200 Power Wagon
2013 RT Plus 6M

Offline DodgeMaterial

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2012 - 10:23:12 PM »
Dave - Thanks for posting the Valiant shots.  It does put that person's comments about dusting off a survivor in the trash!  Obviously the pictures will show that while the car was original and low mileage it really needed to be restored and preserved.  I would like to go back to the alternator pictures.  The top one (not ours) is pretty typical of what people use in a restoration - and NOT correct.  The biggest issue is the casting finish.  It should be smooth - not with a "bead blasted" appearance.  I think that so many alternators have been changed using re-manufactured units that folks start thinking that the rough casting is right.  Now you should share the task you had in cleaning that thing up... and the yellow paint marking controversy!

Dave S.
DodgeMaterial - Dave
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Offline RamSRT

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2012 - 01:29:53 AM »
  Keep in mind that many of these details could not be seen once the components were re-assembled. 
Original Starter Unit


Starter Gear Housing w/ Inspector Decal and initial "W"


Original Inspector Decal and Shim Plate


Restored Starter Gear Unit


Starter bolted to Transmission.  Notice correct "Green Sand" aluminum casting surface on Starter Gear!


Finished Unit installed in Engine compartment


Dave,

Those starter pictures bring back some memories. One thing that remained consistent throughout the Valiant project was the dedication to inspection marks, paint marks, inspector tags.  Many hours were spent discovering , documenting , then reproducing as closely as possible the marks, paint daubs and inspector tags in all areas of the car. The "w " mark on the nose of the starter and 98% of the inspector tag are unseen when assembled. The trans/engine assembly is the same way. The number 2 and the orange inspection mark ( which took hours and hours for you to replicate) are unseen when installed in the car.  Basically if a mark was found anywhere during disassembly or reconditioning it was put back exactly - regardless of whether it would be seen or not.

Many times higher mileage cars have some of the marks erased by mother nature and have to either use markings from other vehicles ( which may not be correct for your vehicle)  or free form your own marks . I remember the Valiant produced some surprises on inspection marks, which I'm sure you'll get into with future components.

Keep em coming !

Tom




Offline JoltinJoe

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2012 - 12:54:55 PM »
I would like take just a moment to back up and ask those who have been following this thread a simple question.  Does anyone feel that this 10,000 mile Survivor was representative of a "NEW" Dealership vehicle before the Restoration was started?  :dunno:  Below is a small grouping of "Before" photos for quick reference.  I would like to hear your feedback! :thumbsup:

"What was your point going from a Hemi Cuda, to a 440 Challenger to a slant six 4-door Valiant survivor that NEVER should have been touched because it exibited so many original characteristics that could have been a great source for reference. It’s not that the judging awards a level of difficulty on your restoration but wasn’t that stacking the deck a little bit? I mean what’s next, are you going to drive down to your local Dodge dealer and buy a new Challenger and enter that in the judging?  And have you ever asked yourself what did you accomplish by ruining a great survivor?"

Feedback: Your Company's work is incredible.  What you have done is reveal "so many original characteristics" and provided great sources for reference with the b&a photos and the sources you gathered to complete this job.  If this Survivor is the first to be restored like this, then that makes your Team artists; while the car sets a new standard, or division, for Survivors.  No matter who it is that is barking at this work, they are upset merely because your Company has shaken their foundation of the Survivor category.  Furthermore, their agenda probably comes from the fact that they do not have the time or money to compete with your Valiant.
Truly a new division for our hobby where only the big boys can play.
Thank you for including us in this cars journey, Joe
HIS: '68 GMC 3/4 ton pick-up truck, '73 Barracuda, '87 Firebird, '01 Jeep Cherokee and finally a '70 Barracuda Convertible!
HERS: 1980 Toyota Starlet, 1995 SAAB 9-5 and then '01 SAAB 9-3 and currently '08 Saab 9-3 convertible!
NEXT IS MINE: purple 2010 Dodge Challenger!!!

Offline Automotive Engineer

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012 - 01:23:19 PM »
Hi Dave,

Good to find you writing to this C-C website and sharing with us these pictures and your vast knowledge of Mopars. Your restoration work has always been amazing and this Valiant project is second to non. It was great to see that project progressing when you was keeping the readers of Moparts updated with that restoration.  :2thumbs:


Thanks for all the great work you have done to the Mopar enthusiast community. It has always been a pleasure to be in touch with you and your company ECS regarding my both Challenger projects   :worshippy


Kind regards
Jukka from Finland


Offline DodgeMaterial

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2012 - 11:40:11 PM »
Dave, what controversy could there have been with power steering?   :clueless:
DodgeMaterial - Dave
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Offline RamSRT

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2012 - 06:18:07 PM »
.  Odd as it may sound, the process was cumbersome because the marks had to be put on quickly and not in a slow, deliberate manner.  It was hit or miss! If a deliberate effort was taken to make them look the same, the appearance would have been forced and UN-natural. .(I would like to see the "Before" picture documenting that one!)  They never treated these parts like artwork when applying inspection marks.  To the contrary, they were put on in a very quick, haphazard fashion.  They looked messy, drippy and sloppy!

We applied the inspection marks on the Valiant the same way that the original inspector applied them.  I  would attempt brushing these marks over and over until being lucky enough to have them inadvertently represent what we had documented.  Trying to match the correct pattern of a "drip" can be a very arduous task.  A Lap Top Computer with photos of the original inspection markings made the "Before & After" possible.  It provided a visual template for duplicating the original patterns.  In some instances it took as many as 60 - 70 attempts PER MARK to get it right!  Time could have been saved by being "deliberate" but then the overall appearance would have mirrored a third grade art project instead of what originally came on this Vehicle.  .

Before Photo - "Brand New/Survivor Dealership Appearance"  :smilielol:


Before Photo - Yoke Center Section


Before Photo - Yoke Side View; Inspection Marks/Drips


After Photo -Restored Inspection Marks
 


Dave hit the nail on the head. Inspection marks for the plant served as a visual verification of a completed operation or job in the plant. The vehicle was moving down the line when they were applied in most cases. If the operator ran into an assembly problem completing the task then they may have a mere seconds to compete the mark. Each vehicle  is almost a unique work depending on how successful the assembly operations were the first time. Sometimes there is a temptation to use the markings from one vehicle on another. Vehicles with perfectly crafted inspection marks may look pretty and symmetrical but at the end of the day would not represent how they originally looked.

On the Valiant project  Dave wanted to replicate the marks as they were found. Many varying methods were used to discover the marks. In many cases it took hours to reapply them correctly. The laptop and the countless thousands of documentation  pictures were invaluable. The Valiant was basically it's own original. . This was good and bad. The good - each mark had an original to replicate. The bad - the original picture limited any personal interpretation of the mark.

It would be neat to see other vehicles with their before and after shots of inspection marks.

Tom


Offline RamSRT

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2012 - 06:09:45 PM »
Does anyone know why the rear end housing has a piece of tape on it?? :clueless:

Tom

Offline 'Cuda Hunter

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2012 - 10:20:08 PM »
When I saw the tape I assumed it was to keep contaminants out of the diff.

I would very much like to continue onto the body since everything so far is what has mounted to the exterior of the body.

I am really enjoying this thread.
"All riches begin as a state of mind and you have complete control of your mind"  -- B. Lee

Offline drewcrane

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2012 - 09:25:45 AM »
I am doing a resto on a Barracuda and this thread is invaluable as to reference points ,keep em coming :popcorn:

Offline DodgeMaterial

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2012 - 11:14:26 PM »
Dave, it is worth mentioning that this car was a bit unusual as a slant 6 sedan with manual disc brakes and an 8 3/4 sure-grip diff.  How about some brake shots before you move on to the body!
DodgeMaterial - Dave
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Offline RamSRT

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #42 on: May 30, 2012 - 01:13:05 PM »
Dave, it is worth mentioning that this car was a bit unusual as a slant 6 sedan with manual disc brakes and an 8 3/4 sure-grip diff.  How about some brake shots before you move on to the body!

Great Info Dave,

If memory serves me correct Black was also the lowest production color for this vehicle.  A 4 door with No air conditioning but a rear window defroster option ( blower type) !!

Tom

RPM Guy

Offline RamSRT

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #43 on: May 31, 2012 - 05:21:56 PM »
Show Alert

ECS Automotive Concepts will be attending Monster Mopar Spring Fling in St. Louis on June 8,9,10.  We will have a swap space in the Covered Garage portion of the Swap meet area inside of the Oval Track.  Stop by and see RPM , Glass Etching, Labels and Decals. Check out the Vin Transfers that restore the Chrysler Corporation and Pentastar on your Dash Vin Plate.

Website:  www.ECSautomotive.com

See you at the Show!

Tom

RPM Guy

Offline RamSRT

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Re: SURVIVOR vs. GROUND-UP RESTORATION!
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2012 - 05:44:48 PM »
We were able to keep the bare metal parts protected and looking new with a product that took about 18 months to develop.  It is called RPM - Rust Prevention Magic.  Here is a link from the show MY CLASSIC CAR that just did a segment on our product.  The episode is currently being televised on Speed Channel TV.

Click small screen arrow "GARAGE SEGMENT" on the right for 5 minute clip - RPM
http://www.myclassiccar.com/episode/16/13/



Great Endorsement for RPM.  For long term metal protection it's unsurpassed.  It's easy to apply on assembled parts also.
Dave put in a lot of time and effort to develop RPM.
For more information visit the website : www.ECSautomotive.com
Toll Free - 1-855-532-7846

One thing to remember on all of the pictures that Dave has been posting on Project Valiant is these pictures were from 2010 and before. All of the bare metal on the project was protected with RPM and looks the same today as when it won Best of Show in 2010. That's a testament to the long term durability of RPM

Tom
RPM Guy
ECS Automotive Concepts