70 rt/se 440 six pack

[shadetree]

Hello everybody.I am new here,so did'nt know exactly where to post a few questions.Sorry if I am in the wrong post.I am looking at a Challenger rt/se 440 sixpack car,tan metallic and tan or brown interior.I have done enough research to know the car is real.What I am concerned about is what the car would be worth if the motor is not # matching.The motor was in a different location than the car.All other #'s are right and match the build sheet.
Car is in primer and jambed out.NOS 1/4 panels all other panels original to the car.Needs hood and trunklid.Hood is bent from stuck hinges and trunklid rusted under rear lip.interior is actually good except door panels and carpet.Motor is at machine shop ready to go together.He is asking 32,000.Is this about right and what would the price difference be in # motor and non #'s motor.
Thanks  for any help.

[wiging19]

Interesting question.  It would be a nice car when it is finished but without original drive train it loses alot of collector car appeal.  Knowing the cost of parts, painting and missing body parts your probably looking at the range of another $20k to $40k going into the car.  A similar clone probably can be found that could be bought for $35K to $45K fully finished in today's market although it appears to be improving.  In the higher price range you start finding very nice cars with hemi engines in them. 

In today's market totally finished looking the way it came out of the factory, all paperwork, documentation and numbers matching you probably are looking at a car well north of $100k.  My car is a 1970 convertible original 318 that has been heavily modified with upgrades to the drive train to make it handle like a modern car.  It will have a hemi engine and transmission with OD.  So I can't tell you what a car rebuilt along the lines of how it came out of the factory is really worth since my focus is restorified to modern levels of safe driving (disc brakes all around etc.).  I do know without the original engine and drive train the value is a third of what you could have had.

I suspect the person selling this car is holding on to what the value was of these cars a couple of years ago before the big drop in values.  If he has the engine and includes it in the sell (plus you can rebuild it for your car) and you have the extra money to put into doing the car right you might come out ahead if later you decide you want to sell it.  The only thing that would make it a more exciting possibility is if it was a convertible since the 440 six pack was not a common addition seen every day on these cars.  Realize too that the parts for these cars are quite expensive to find so you want to have as complete a car as possible.  Dropping $2k on a part for this car could be very easy if you rebuild it to factory specs/numbered parts.

My opinion is without the missing engine/drive train the car is at most worth $20k.  Even less than that if the body needs alot of work and as you've noted rust is a factor in various parts of these cars.  If you can find an original 440 six pack engine for that year sometimes that helps the price but no where close to the value of all original parts.  The challenge to me is if you can get the missing items and finding someone who knows how to put things back together for you so you get the max money out of it.   

[shadetree]

Thanks Wiging.All the parts for the car is there,and there is an original six pack motor with the car.I just have not put my eyes on the serial # on the motor yet.
I am going to check the motor out today.
Fender tag,dash #,cowl,radiator support #,and build sheet all check out.The only thing missing that I can tell so far is the breather.
I will be doing all the work myself.

[ragtopdodge]

I don't think #s matching motor is all that critical.  Mopars show the motor in the VIN, unlike GM and Ford cars of that era.

What's more valuable is that it has a buildsheet.

Get a date coded, correct 1970 HP (get one with a casting date probably close , but before obviously, the build date of the car; door sticker) if it doesn't come with one and you'll be fine.

Hard to say, but if it needs a hood and a trunk lid, I think maybe it's worth close to $30k if all other body work is done.  You can probably finish the car for maybe $15k more, so you have a completely restored, six-pack car for $45k and your time.

Not bad, but is it what you want?  You want an automatic with that color combo???

Metro makes awesome door panels so you're set there.  Hopefully, the cardboard headliner is in good condition, but Dayclona makes fiberglass repops.

[Chryco Psycho]

Sounds like a reasonable buy , they were very few R/T SE 6 pack cars , There are a number of very hard to get & costly parts unique to the SE though , headliner board , rear finish panel , trim along the top of the doors , fender & rear of the hood . most of which is not reproduced & needs to be with the car . The Build sheet & fender tag need to be there as well . I tend to lean the other way & think it will hurt the value to not have the #s engine though , as I said there are very few R/T SEs & probably under 100 6 packs so the car is desirable original engine or not , but the high $$ collectors always look for the best cars with everything as original as possible . I also have a  R/T SE & my original engine was sitting 3' from the car when I bought it & the seller would not let me have the block not matter what I offered , I called him 3 years ago asking where the block was , he was blown away that I still have the car but had no clue where my block went to 

[shadetree]

Block did not match.He did have a six pack motor with it.All other #'s matched.Came down to 25,000.
I normally restore first gen camaros and know about what they are worth.I know it will cost at least 30,000 more to restore this car not counting labor.Are there
anything left if I do decide to move it later after having some fun with it?

[usraptr]

I'm no expert by any means and especially on a RT S/E Challenger.  However, that being said, I bought a '70 Cuda with matching number drive train, 440 4v, 4-speed, 4:10 Dana, Super trak pac, Rallye Dash, new seat covers and dash cap car with a fresh rebuild on the engine and trans for $18K. Mine is one of 334 - 440 Cudas built in 1970 and I've been led to believe one of 100 or less Super Trak cars built.  The only body work/rust we had was to replace was the trunk, both rear quarters and the Dutchman panel behind the rear  window.  The tri-power will definitely make a difference but even with that without the original block or at  least a period correct date stamped block, I agree with Chryco that this guy is asking to much if it needs that much body work.  My 2 cents.   Good luck.

[tommyg29]

I also have a  R/T SE & my original engine was sitting 3' from the car when I bought it & the seller would not let me have the block not matter what I offered , I called him 3 years ago asking where the block was , he was blown away that I still have the car but had no clue where my block went to 

wow, and the guy didnt realize that YOU, the new owner of the car would be the logical person who would most need that engine, and be the one who that engine would have the most value to!
Some people!?
Mine was a 318, and when I purchased the car my original block was also sitting in the same garage, and I could have taken it for free, but decided it wouldnt be worth the trouble.

[Chryco Psycho]

Yeah well I knew I needed it 7 could not get it , you should have heard him 30 years later when I phoned him , I am sure he is well aware of what a numbers car is worth today !! He just about fell over when I told him I still had the car & he has long since sold his B5 T/A that was sitting beside the car I bought