Hydraulic lifter preload

[Beck]

Hey,
I'm setting up the valve train in my freshly built 440.
I have a question about the preload for the hydraulic lifters.
I have read that about .030" preload or roughly 1/2 turn of the adjustment screws is normal.
I am unsure of exactly what brand of lifter I have, as I bought the motor unfinished from someone.
I was told they were anti-pump lifters to match the comp XE275HL cam.
I contacted comp cams but they couldn't really help beyond suggesting .060" preload based on the lifters having .177" travel.
.060" equates to 1.5 turns of the adjustment screws.

Here are some photos of the lifters:



And a shot of everything installed with .060" preload:


Does all this look and sound about right?
Seems like a lot of preload?
Is preload based on the total travel of the plunger? (.177")
Do the adjustment screws look right? Are they extended too far out the bottom of the rockers?
I ordered the pushrods based on .5 turns of the screws, so with 1.5 turns they extend down a lot more.

I'm thinking perhaps less preload might be needed?

I haven't done this stuff before so want to get as much info as I can, and hopefully not screw this up!

Cheers,
Aaron

[Chryco Psycho]

At 1/2 a turn the pushrods will fall out , when the engine sits the lifters under load with the valves open will bleed down , when you go to restart the engine the lifter will still be collapsed & the pushrod will fall out of the rocker arm , I would recommend 1 full turn minimum .
 Locate 1 Johnson Brand lifter & compare it to what you have , if they are not Johnson they are garbage , they crap ones will bleed down even while running and cause noise or bent pushrods .

[Beck]

There's no chance I'm gonna get my hands on one Johnson brand lifter to compare with mine in New Zealand.
But I did some research and it seems Johnson supply the lifters for Comp.

The lifters I have seem to be 822-16 high energy comp lifters, which require .030" to .045".
So I'll reset my preload to .045" (just over 1 turn of the screws) and hope for the best...

Cheers!

[Strawdawg]

Looks like you have more threads sticking out of the adjuster than is usually recommended ??

[brads70]

But I did some research and it seems Johnson supply the lifters for Comp.

Cheers!

It's my understanding Johnson went out of buisness a few years ago, so unless these are older lifters I doubt they are Johnson's?

[Beck]

Johnson lifters?
http://johnsonlifters.com

I had heard that 1-2 threads visible out the bottom of the rocker was normal, and mine are showing about 2.
But they do look a little too extended to me...

I'll reset the preload to .045" which will extend fewer threads out the bottom, and hopefully keep everything happy.

[brads70]

Johnson lifters?
http://johnsonlifters.com

I had heard that 1-2 threads visible out the bottom of the rocker was normal, and mine are showing about 2.
But they do look a little too extended to me...

I'll reset the preload to .045" which will extend fewer threads out the bottom, and hopefully keep everything happy.

Cool, I stand corrected then! 

[Strawdawg]

Johnson lifters?
http://johnsonlifters.com

I had heard that 1-2 threads visible out the bottom of the rocker was normal, and mine are showing about 2.
But they do look a little too extended to me...

I'll reset the preload to .045" which will extend fewer threads out the bottom, and hopefully keep everything happy.

Guess I looked at the picture wrong.  I thought there were three threads sticking out

[Jim]

At 1/2 a turn the pushrods will fall out , when the engine sits the lifters under load with the valves open will bleed down , when you go to restart the engine the lifter will still be collapsed & the pushrod will fall out of the rocker arm , I would recommend 1 full turn minimum .

That's the first I've ever heard anything like that.

Most cam manufacturer's recommend 0.020, which is about 1/2 turn. I ran my XE275HL like that and it was a bit noisy. Rep at Top Line Hylift recommended backing off to about 1/4, which I did (actually about 3/8) and it really quieted down.

FWIW, I'm running crane iron rockers with ball tipped adjusters from Smith Bros.

[Chryco Psycho]

I had it happen 3 times on an engine we built , first fire up cold & it would drop 3-4 pushrods , increased the preload to 1 turn & it stopped . Generally I like to keep the preload to a minimum to keep the lifters from pumping up & not closing the valves .

[Jim]

I had it happen 3 times on an engine we built , first fire up cold & it would drop 3-4 pushrods , increased the preload to 1 turn & it stopped . Generally I like to keep the preload to a minimum to keep the lifters from pumping up & not closing the valves .

Almost sounds like a geometry or lifter quality issue on that particular motor. Even bleeding down I have a hard time visualizing how that can happen. Maybe hanging a valve a bit. 

As you stated, keep preload to a minimum.

[Chryco Psycho]

the lifters were the Good Johnson ones , but sitting for a week the oil will bleed out with the valve open & high spring pressure , it takes a few second to pump back up , the odd pushrod would miss the rocker on the way up

[Beck]

Guess I looked at the picture wrong.  I thought there were three threads sticking out

Nah, I'm probably counting the threads wrong.
Do you count the highs or the valleys? I see about 2 highs, but perhaps 3 valleys?

[bandt]

I bought a top end from Hughes, cam and heads.
 According to Hughes specs a street motor is two full turns of the adjuster. I had the same delemma, I read anywhere from a half a turn to two full turns. I went with Chrycho's advice and went with 1 full turn. Everything seems fine, nice and quiet no problems. I have the same PRW rockers but this is on a 340. They say each turn of the adjuster is .042. So from .021 to .084 is quite a discrepency.
 You have to get an idea for what 0 lash feels like. If your lifters are new they compress so easy its hard to tell if you are at 0 lash or not. Watch the plunger as you turn your adjuster if you see the plunger compress you've gone to far.

Looks like there is to much exposed thread on your adjusters to me.

Brian

[Beck]

Thanks.
I took a half turn out of the preload, so they should be at .045"
The adjustment screws on the rockers look to have better geometry now, less extension from under the rocker.

I was very careful when finding zero lash initially. Seemed to be pretty easy to tell.
I used the spin-the-pushrod technique.

Here's hoping everything will be ok for the first start up!