Author Topic: awful suspension issue ...  (Read 12643 times)

Offline thenuke1

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awful suspension issue ...
« on: June 21, 2012 - 10:12:09 PM »
firstly let me list what ive fixed so far...

Idle Arms
Pitman Arms
Tie Rods

Allignment

Gearbox

at first it seemed like an alignment issue but the guys that aligned the car told me that the idle arms, tie rods, the pitman arms would need replacing soon. So after about 3 months i bought them all and did the work at home...

while i was at it the gearbox also needed fixing so we took it in for repair.

after everything was on we took it in for alignment. afterwords i noticed the steering wheel was VERY loose and would drift to the right (passenger side ). i was told that the gearbox probably needed tightening from the top which was easily reachable. We tightened it as much as we could and the problem was still there... when we took it to where we repaired the gearbox they tightened it as much as it could and it fixed the issue a bit but you could still feel the steering wheel loose and the car still drifted....

NOW we ran into an issue where the driver side wheel looked like the top was facing inward and the bottom out. We tried tightening the tie rod arms and after testing it the wheel started to squeek now what we think is the issue is that the tires are turning on the inner part of the wheel and now the car wobbles like hell practically impossible to drive...

heres how it looks

















the only thing left to do is to take it to the mechanic if i cant find how to fix it at home ...

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Offline brads70

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2012 - 10:46:16 PM »
Did you adjust the centering valve on the steering box?
What alignment specs did you get? If they used the old bias ply tires specs it won't be right.
Looks horribly toed in to me from those pictures? Get someone to help you but holding a tape measure on the front side of the tire and then the rear side of the tire to measure the toe.( measuring across to the other tire) This will be close enough to get you to an alignment shop.
By the pictures the camber looks way outta wack too?
Brad
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012 - 03:52:03 AM »
What on earth did they set the alignment to?  :eek7:  If that's what your alignment guy sent you home with, find a new alignment guy.

Way too much positive camber, and way too much toe in. Looks to be sitting very high in the front as well, did you change the torsion bar adjustment and ride height?

Alignment should be set to 0 to -.5 degrees camber, as much positive caster as you can get (stop around +4, but with stock parts you won't get that much), and around 1/16" toe in.

Positive camber was for bias ply's, and it didn't even do them any favors. A little negative camber will really help you in the corners, but even 0 would be an improvement over what you've got.

Check the toe using a tape measure as Brad mentioned. Wheels straight ahead, I like to use a "tread feature" like those center ribs on your tires as a reference point. Figure out the difference front to back. Ideally you want about 1/16" less on the front measurement than the back, but for the tape measure method anything less than 1/4" will work until you can get a proper alignment. Looks like the ride height has been raised, is it where you want it? If its not, you can lower the front end with the torsion bar adjusters. As it turns out, as you lower the car you add negative camber, which would also help your cause in this case.

And seriously, if that's how your alignment guy set things up, fire him, because he hasn't the foggiest idea how to adjust old Mopars. If you're anywhere near Sacramento, I'd be happy to refer you to the guy that does my work, or help troubleshoot it myself.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012 - 03:58:18 AM by 72bluNblu »

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012 - 07:54:24 AM »
What on earth did they set the alignment to?  :eek7:  If that's what your alignment guy sent you home with, find a new alignment guy.

Way too much positive camber, and way too much toe in. Looks to be sitting very high in the front as well, did you change the torsion bar adjustment and ride height?

 :iagree: When it's off so bad you can eyeball it, it's off by a lot. See if you can determine the specs he used. Several threads here have a good spec posted for comparison. If the guy gives you any crap, find someone else.


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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012 - 09:20:29 AM »
that alignment is not even close , who ever set it up has no clue

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Offline HP2

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012 - 09:53:45 AM »
Ditto what everyone else has said.

The loose steering box might just mean it is worn out. Certainly the alignment specs are going to make it a bear to drive, but recirculating ball steering boxes do wear with use. If the shop tightened down the nut and it improved things but your out of adjustment, it may mean its time to rebuild or swap out.

Offline burdar

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012 - 10:44:30 AM »
The first thing to do is set your ride height.  All other adjustments will be affected when you raise or lower the front end. 

There was a guy on Moparts with a Demon that was having a strange issue.  He set his ride height where he wanted it...then he drove the car around the block and the front end was WAY up in the air again.  He did this multiple times with the same outcome.   Most people (including me) thought the torsion bar socket in the frame was spinning.  He confirmed that it wasn't.  It turned out to be the camber adjustment causing the front end to lift up.  It was really strange.  It looks like your camber is way off and your front end is sitting high...that's why I mensioned the other guys issue.

Take the car into someone who knows how to alighn these older cars.

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012 - 11:57:16 AM »
It really cracks me up that shops have trouble adjusting the alignment on these cars. They're easier than just about anything out there! The only wild card is that the settings change with the ride height, but once you've figured that out, the rest is just camber bolts. Now maybe you can't get the specs you want because you don't have enough adjustment, but that's usually a sign of another problem.

Here's what I would do-

Jack the car up and take the tension off the torsion bar adjusters. Count how many revolutions you make on each side before the adjusters hang loose. Then, adjust the upper control arms. Loosen up the camber bolts and rotate the front camber bolts as far toward the outside of the car as they will go. Rotate the rear camber bolts as far to the inside of the car as they will go. If they won't turn smoothly even once they're loosened up, smear some grease on the backs of the eccentrics, helps a ton. Then, put tension back on the torsion bars. Whatever you counted on the way out, put about 2/3 that many revolutions back in. Once its on the ground, if its not too low, drive it around the block to settle the suspension and see where you're really at. Bouncing on the bumper isn't usually enough to really settle the suspension in. Measure from flat ground (concrete is best) to the top of the wheel well and check the height side to side. Not the most accurate way to do it, but it'll get you close. Jack the car up and make any adjustments to the torsion bar adjusters that you need, remember to drive it around the block to settle the suspension each time you make a change.

When you're happy with the ride height, park it with the wheels straight ahead, walk back 15 feet and see how the tires look. Hopefully, they're pretty close to vertical. You can even check that with a carpenter's level! Just put it up against the tire and keep it in line with the hub. If the tires are tipped too far in, rotate that rear camber bolt out a little. If they're too far out (like they are now) put the front camber bolt in a little more. You don't have to take the tension off the torsion bars with the adjusters to adjust the camber bolts, it does make it a little easier though.

Then adjust the toe using a tape measure as described above.

That setting on the UCA's will maximize your caster setting. Setting the wheels up so that they're vertical should give you 0 camber. Then drive it to an alignment shop and have it checked. With the ride height set, all they should have to do is adjust the camber bolts and tie rods. And it should be WAY closer than it is already.

Offline GranCuda1970

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012 - 01:33:28 PM »
Good info here!!  Thanks.

Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012 - 03:58:29 PM »
This is jot the way the allignment shop sent it home ... this is after I tightened the tie rods on the driver side dame it wish I took a pic while it was alligned...

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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012 - 04:11:33 PM »
This is jot the way the allignment shop sent it home ... this is after I tightened the tie rods on the driver side dame it wish I took a pic while it was alligned...

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I'm thinking you tightened the torsion bar adjusting bolts thus raising the front of the car...that might explain the camber & toe in issue.
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012 - 12:58:03 AM »
This is jot the way the allignment shop sent it home ... this is after I tightened the tie rods on the driver side dame it wish I took a pic while it was alligned...

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If you tightened the tie rod, that might explain the toe in.

But it doesn't explain the camber or ride height. While the original specs called for 0 or a little positive camber, what you have is A LOT of positive camber. Based on the pictures, I'd say at least +1 degree, probably more like 1.5 or more. Reason I say that is I've run that much negative camber, and it really doesn't become visible unless you're running more than .75 degrees one way or another. My Challenger currently has - .75 degrees camber, and its just visible if you look closely.

Take 2 full turns off the torsion bar adjusters (while the car is on jackstands) and see where you sit. Should help your camber issue too. And measure that toe in as described. Then find yourself an alignment shop that will set it up with something other than 1971 bias-ply specs...

Offline HP2

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2012 - 09:29:05 AM »
... this is after I tightened the tie rods on the driver side

There are 5 threaded devices in each tie rod. Can you point out exactly what you tightened in one of your pictures?

Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012 - 07:20:51 PM »
thanks guys !!!

i was able to find a guy that does Classic cars and i let em know about all the info here and all the work i did to the car
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If its got BOOBS or an ENGINE, your gonna have problems.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2012 - 11:07:33 PM »
so it drives better now ?

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