Author Topic: awful suspension issue ...  (Read 12639 times)

Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2012 - 07:53:54 PM »
Can anyone tell me how to left and lower the front end??? Took it to a guy that knows classics but he said when he went to adjust the Car it wasn't possible someone had adjusted it all the way

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Offline brads70

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2012 - 08:06:18 PM »
Can anyone tell me how to left and lower the front end??? Took it to a guy that knows classics but he said when he went to adjust the Car it wasn't possible someone had adjusted it all the way

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Jack it up , take the load off the suspension and loosen or tighten the torsion bar adjuster. Then bounce or roll are car around to settle the suspension again.  Looking at your first picture I bet you could lower it an inch or so and the camber and toe would be better
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012 - 08:38:34 AM by brads70 »
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

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Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2012 - 10:03:23 PM »
Out of the shop and they fixed the problem a bit but the wheels are getting worn out and it appears that the camber kit is bad. I when I drove the car the suspension was drive Able but the tires squeaked all the way home tires even got worn out

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Offline brads70

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2012 - 08:42:36 AM »
Out of the shop and they fixed the problem a bit but the wheels are getting worn out and it appears that the camber kit is bad. I when I drove the car the suspension was drive Able but the tires squeaked all the way home tires even got worn out

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Seems like you need to find a new front end mechanic!  :scared:  your current one has no clue!  :banghead:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2012 - 09:50:02 AM »
  :iagree: if the tires are making noise it is waaay out , I can set it far better than that without a machine just a level & tape measure

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Offline HP2

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2012 - 11:19:04 AM »
Good grief. Yes, any number of us could get you a better set up by simply eyeballing things.

Where are you at? Maybe a member close by can lend a hand or at least get a recommendation for a shop that knows what the heck they are doing. You've got some real basic problems that can be solved in an afternoons worth of work. But you need someone who knows the classic mopar stuff, not the "toe and go" that comes with modern alignment techs exeperience or the shim philosohy of a classic GM alignment experience.

I surmise you have a few different problems; the lower arm anchor appears it may have been torqued without weight on the nose or the anchors were installed off a hex, your upper arm bushings do not allow enough range of adjustment which is messing with camber and caster, and your tie rods are messing with your toe. Any or all of those could be the issue. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012 - 11:26:07 AM by HP2 »

Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2012 - 05:35:05 PM »
im in 818 Los Angeles

yesterday i went out to canyon country to hopefully fix the issue. but like i said the dude semi fixed the alignment issue, he didnt even charge me because it wasnt perfectly aligned

heres what was done to the car so far.

1. Car was raised because when turning left the drivers side tire would make contact with the body. so where the tires where inn words they are now out words

2.pitt men arms, idle arms, inner and outer arms replaced at home

3. took it to alignment where the DS was fine but the PS was loose as hell.

3. attempted to fix the issue at home ended up making the issue worse. tires are now being driven on their sides which by this point tires are all but done .

4. took it to Canyon Country yesterday. Alignment was semi fixed. tires are still being driven on the sides.

im being told that it could also be a camber kit issue ... ill take a few more pics so everyone can see how it looks now
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Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2012 - 06:08:49 PM »










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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2012 - 06:23:29 PM »
the adjustment is all in the upper control arms where they mount into the body , you can see the bolts inside the engine compartment

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Offline brads70

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2012 - 07:24:39 PM »
Is it just me or is the torsion bar adjustment bolts run all the way to the top?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2012 - 07:36:12 PM »
 :iagree:, at least I think I do. I can usually easily see the bolt head below the LCA.


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Offline HP2

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2012 - 08:16:10 PM »
L.A. Okay, maybe we'll get lucky and autoxcuda wll be watching and chime in. I'm sure he could recommend someone who could help you out. In the mean time, here is what I see.

The core of your whole problem is your wheel/tire combo. It looks like you have a 15x7 chrome mod wheel with too much negative backspace. I'm guessing you have 4 to 4.5" of negative back spacing, which tyically isn't a problem, but in this case it is putting the tire out further on the hub. Combine with with what looks like a 70 or 75 series tire and you have the wheel lip interference, which is what drove the changes that have created this problem. You cranked the ride height up to reduce tire interference and have put it at such a tall ride height that there is no way you will be able to get the alignment set.

Looking at your lower control arm, please get a tape meaure and measure the distance from the floor to the bottom of the lower ball joint, this is measurement B. Check it and right it down. Now measure the distance from the floor to the bottom of the torsion bar socket. This is measurement A. Subtract B from A. I'm betting it is close to or over 3 inches. It should be no more than 1 1/8". Until you can get the ride height down to a reasonable level, nothing we can suggest will work.

However, assuming you can change out to a set of wheels/tires or borrow something that won't hit to get the ride height down, we can move forward. The first, very first ,thing you do is set ride height as it impacts everything else. I'm willing to put money on it that if you drop the nose down to at least the factory spec, then things will come back into the proper location. However, here are some more checks to perform once you get it down.

The upper control arm eccentrics/cams control the caster/camber relationship. You want the rear cam on the upper arm to be turned to pull the nut closer to the engine. You want the front cam to push the nut out closer to the tire. This creates maximum caster, but may leave camber out of whack. Next you want to tap the front cam to slowly pull the nut in towards the engine until your tire is vertical. A simple bubble meaure can be used to verify. Once you have this in place, then tighten down the cams.

Next you want to measure center to center on each tie rod. This should be equal. I would guess they are, but lets verify. Assuming they are, you want to measure a point on the front of the front tire as high up as is reasonable that will allow a tape to measure across both front tires. Pick an arbitrary spot that is the same on both tires, like a tread rib, ossibly in the middle and make a mental note of this tread rib.. Write down this measuremeant as B. Next take the same measurement at the same rib on the back of the front tire, again as high up as possible to reach both left and right tires. This is measurement A. Sbbtract B from A. It should total no more than 1/8" in. This is toe.

You previously said the steering was loose so you tightened down the sector nut. This is the large nut at the top of the small dome on the top of the steering box. Did you tighten this nut or another one? I ask because now your car pulls. I wonder if perhaps you tightened down the nuts holding the valve body, which very, very slightly altered its position on the steering box. When this valve moves, however slight it may be, it alters the left/right pressure and will create a pull. To change this pull, you have to just barely loosen these two nuts, then gently tap the valve the opposite way of the ull, then re-tighten. This is a touchy operation and will probably require repeated attemts to get right. That's normal, just keep at it until it doesn't pull.

After that, you will have a pretty basic set up that should be adequate to get you anywhere you need to go to get it verified. It will stop the tire wear and resultant squealing, will return normal suspension travel, and allow enough adjustment to get things back where they need to be. Once you get to a shop, tell them to leave ride height alone, get as much positive caster as possible up to around 4* , and set camber at zero to -.5 degrees. Toe in should be set at .125 total in. If you are at a place that has the late model attitude of toe and go, and only does late model stuff, tell them you want '05 Mustang specs. They will mess with it for an hour, come out and tell you they can't get 7* of postive caster with your car. It will only reach 3*. Smile and tell tham that is fine, pay your bill, and drive away happy.

Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2012 - 12:12:23 PM »
thanks guys.

i'll take all the help and put it to good use this week. I'll probably have to wait until saturday since i work 6:45am - 6pm Mon - Fri but ill definitely update everyone when i start the process.

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If its got BOOBS or an ENGINE, your gonna have problems.

Offline thenuke1

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2012 - 06:05:38 PM »
UPDATE !!

finally got around to taking the car in to some one that knows what they're doing ...

took it to Marlos Frame and alignment in chats worth.

the price wont be cheap but im confident this dude knows what he's doing. $1000 even ...

 As soon as he saw the job the last shop did he yelled "JESES !?!?!" lol

he even offered to do the alignment twice at no charge. Once for the tires the car has on and the 2nd when i get new tires which it WILL need.

im soo happy ... even though i didnt expect to spend so much i also KNOW my car will be fixed after a YEAR of inactivity ... ive spent a few hundred on multiple alignments and nothing...but Marlo saw the car and right away saw the problems... and it is gonna be alot of labor removing the front end to get to the bushings that where never replaced since the car went off the assembly line. A few other parts have to be ordered but most of the cost will be labor....
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If its got BOOBS or an ENGINE, your gonna have problems.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: awful suspension issue ...
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2012 - 08:18:16 PM »
$1000 is a lot of coin but if he is replacing bushings etc maybe not so bad , let us know how it sorts out

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