Tesla S

[ragtopdodge]

True, H2 requires energy to be produced.

No different than the millions of cubic feet of natural gas used to extract oil from tar sands in Canada.

[HP_Cuda]

Wow someone popped a head gasket around here.....

Look if it takes more energy to produce the energy you want to use why would you do it? Even if you used all the Solar cells in the world to produce Hydrogen fuel you would be wasting more energy then you are making.

Pretty simple concept.....

[NoMope Greg]

Yes, hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, although it's not the most abundant element here on earth.  (That would be oxygen, most of it locked up in the rocks.  Hydrogen is 8th on the list.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements#Abundance_of_elements_in_the_Earth)  The problem is that, like most elements, there's very little free hydrogen - it's all combined with other elements to form molecules.  Most accessible hydrogen is in the form of water - I think we all know this. 

The current energy cost to produce free hydrogen is approximately 35kWh/kilogram.  That's just to produce it - it doesn't include the costs of transport, storage and other infrastructure.  Hydrogen also has a low energy density relative to gasoline, diesel or natural gas.  So it won't be easy or cheap to switch to a hydrogen economy.  But I agree with ViperMan that in the long run, this is the future of land transportation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

[Topcat]

I'm all for Electric cars.
I should be. I work in the battery industry. 

[Ornamental]

Plus, the toxic batteries end up in a landfill, because no one has a system set up to recylce them.

http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/recycling/
http://www.batteryrecycling.com/

Einstien may prove to be a boon to mankind someday, (and admittadlly many, many people are struggling to understand his views and adapt them for practical use) but so far everything he has done is theory.

Einstein changed physics. Not a small feat.
And as for "may prove to be a boon to mankind someday", we have already benefitted from Einsteins theories in ways you can experience yourself.

Ever notice in science, that everything is a theory? (Even if it works in the real world?)

Science has a different usage of the word "theory" than the common usage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory




Other than that, I also think that Nikola Tesla was a rare genius, and it's a loss for mankind that he didn't get solid funding for his experiments.
Imagine if J.P. Morgan had been more of an altruist...
I've been to the Nikola Tesla museum in Belgrade (I never remembered to ask if the spotlight shining light over the sphere containing his ashes is 220VAC or 12VDC), and among other things Tesla should be honoured for is building the worlds first RC boat.

Ok, now back to electric cars. I'd love to have a Tesla Roadster for city use.

[Topcat]

http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/recycling/

Interstate as a whole is currently recycling 130% of lead batteries they sell.
Also being the biggest SLA recycler in N. America.

I recycle 100's of lbs every week.
So many dead batteries, sometimes in my truck we fill pallet loads of them.

They go to a crusher back East. Plastics are separated from lead. Both are recycled into new batteries. The Acids are neutralized with baking soda that is used as an agent in making Laundry Detergents.

[TinCuda]

Interstate as a whole is currently recycling 130% of lead batteries they sell.
Also being the biggest SLA recycler in N. America.

I recycle 100's of lbs every week.
So many dead batteries, sometimes in my truck we fill pallet loads of them.

They go to a crusher back East. Plastics are separated from lead. Both are recycled into new batteries. The Acids are neutralized with baking soda that is used as an agent in making Laundry Detergents.

I asked my wife and she said that I couldn't grind up old batteries and put them in the laundry.  She has a pretty closed mind but she is usually right...LOL


.,

[Topcat]

more charging stations will be needed before they are practical for all.

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/video?id=7881638&pid=8720066

[HP_Cuda]

Gee I wonder if those big multinational Oil companies would slow down any charging station plans....

Nahhhhh 

[Gumby]

Wow someone popped a head gasket around here.....

Look if it takes more energy to produce the energy you want to use why would you do it? Even if you used all the Solar cells in the world to produce Hydrogen fuel you would be wasting more energy then you are making.

Pretty simple concept.....

Yeah, I might be beating the drum of a dead horse. Consider the alternative to how we have handled the situation. Billions upon billions upon billions of dollars thrown down a rabbit hole, trying to manipulate and control coal, oil, or fossil based fuel. Billions upon billions more trying to "make it green" Millions upon millions upon millions of lives wasted trying either to protect or overtake the control of that oil, fossil based fuel through war. Millions upon millions upon millions either trying to prevent a catastrophe, or cleaning up an enviromental catastrophe that has already happened. (think Kuwait, or Exxon Valdez or any number of hundreds of thousands of other examples) And yet you say I am uncorked. Maybe, just maybe, the entire system that we now employ is "uncorked" I haven't killed one single person. You can't say that for coal or oil) The Money and Manpower we have wasted over conventional fuels could have been applied to come up with a solution for extracting, storing and utilizing Hydrogen at a fraction of the cost. Wow. I'm sorry for being such a dreamer and a dumbazz. I guess I am thankful that I am "uncorked" You don't think, that all the oil in the world has costs more than what it is worth to produce, when you look at all the variables to keep it going? The hidden costs are staggering. Far more than converting to Hydrogen would ever be. Oil and gas makes me feel so warm and fuzzy! IT'S SO CHEAP! 

[HP_Cuda]

Another simple observation here in the good ole USA.

Money gets to make the decisions.

Think about that for awhile dreamer....

[TinCuda]

Another simple observation here in the good ole USA.

Money gets to make the decisions.

Think about that for awhile dreamer....

Ah, the golden rule:  He who has the gold, makes the rules...



.,

[Gumby]

Everyone does realize, don't they, that ethonal costs more to produce than what it is worth? Yes it is true. Just saying. (otherwise, the government wouldn't have to SUBSIDISE it, it would stand on it's own) HP-Cudas answer above comes to mind. Yeah, ETHONAL costs MORE to produce than what it is worth. FAR more, plus it uses up scarce water resources and diesel and gas to process. Anymore ideas, HP-CUDA? Just curious. Just because it costs more than what it is worth, doesn't mean we don't do it because someone like AL GORE, or other scum has his fingers into making money off of it by saying it is green. What's green about it? The crops? Certianly not the process that they use to make it. Follow the money on any of this stuff. Cheap, plentiful clean energy will never be obtainable with everyone wanting their finger in the pie. EVER. It is out there, but not until everyone has a system set up to make money off it. Ethonal is not the answer. At least not corn based ethonal. All the farmers are holding their crothces on that one, thinking the government will give them money to grow that. I'm glad that uneffiecient method died out. Hydrogen is where it's at. Gov doesn't know how to regulate/tax that. So, we won't see it. 

[Gumby]

Wow someone popped a head gasket around here.....

Look if it takes more energy to produce the energy you want to use why would you do it? Even if you used all the Solar cells in the world to produce Hydrogen fuel you would be wasting more energy then you are making.

Pretty simple concept..... Hey, no biggie. Ethonal is far more energy intrusive to make, than the energy it releases. Anotherwords, IT COSTS MORE MONEY TO MAKE THAN WHAT IT IS WORTH. Other wise it would not be subsidised. Do you understand that concept? Not trying to be an ass, just asking a simple question. It costs labor, farm equipment, fuel, water to grow crops. then, you have to harvest the crops, then process them. Minimal amount of juice comes out of the corn. It has been proven over and over that this is not an efficient process. How could this possibly be different than extracting energy from hydrogen? It would cut out the fuel wells. the fuel delivery, fuel dealers, the combine manufacturers, combine sellers, the bankers, the farmers, the grain processessors, the fuel processers, the pipeline, the tankers, the drivers, and back into the gas dealers, the blenders, the tankers that transport, the gas stations, HOLY CHIT DUDE! MILLIONS of dollars changing hands before you get a drop. - HOW could Hydrogen cost more to make into fuel?

[ragtopdodge]

Ethanol, we don't go to war over though.  Nor do we have huge oil spills that ruins the environment and local businesses.  Seen those 3-headed shrimp from the gulf recently?

Oil is subsidized too.  billions in tax breaks every year, but it's not like they need the money.  Exxon/Mobil, BP, etc. are the world's most profitable companies, yet they still seem to need our tax dollars.