Tesla S

[ragtopdodge]

Not ONLY do we need better battery tech, but we need a nationwide infrastructure of charging stations.

Public streets, especially in the city, should have them everywhere.  Hotel parking lots/garages.  Work locations, etc.

Eisenhower spent billions (in today's dollars) building the highway system here in the U.S.  We can do something similar on a somewhat smaller scale.

Again, we spend TRILLIONS in pollution and defense spending (wars, patrolling the Persian Gulf) from oil; we can do a bit better in helping getting e-cars more common.

[TinCuda]

If it gave the car a little more range by charging the battery with little windmills it would help the range. I wouldn't expect it to fully charge the battery just give it a little help.

The work is usually more than the reward.  One of the magic inventions the airlines have been looking for for years is a way to get the airplane tires to start spinning before the airplane lands.  Every time an airplane lands, when the tires hit the runway, a puff of smoke and a fair amount of rubber comes off the tire to get them up to ground speed.  This costs the airlines thousands of dollars each year in tire replacements.  Engineers have spent countless hours working on windmill type contraptions, electric spin up motors, etc.  Nothing has worked so far.  Either they weight too much or cause too much drag that the fuel cost is more than the savings on less tires used.

It's a nice idea but if you figure it out, I want to go in with you as partners...


.,

[HP_Cuda]

Heh kinda sounds like the perpetual motion engines on youtube!

Free Energy perpetual motion

Funny thing is folks never want to talk about how they start their engines....hmmmmm

[Chryco Psycho]

Most electricity is coal fired in Western Canada & the plant are old  , most of the people I have talked to around there say there is no emission controls on the plants  & yes they work in the industry .
 Batteries are a huge carbon footprint as well & when you can buy a VW with a TDI engine & get 80 + mpg while the hybrids are getting 50-60% of that so even if diesel is say 25% efficient use of the heat produced @ 2x the milage that is less of a factor  .

[AARuFAST]

You have a rear axle that only rolls the car so why couldn't it be modified to generate voltage to charge the batteries....?

If the electric car is the future, where will the Transportation tax money on gasoline come from to repair the roads etc?

Increase your electric bills.............yep.
They have free charging systems in Baltimore.  Watch how fast u will be feeding a meter to charge ur car.

[TinCuda]

You have a rear axle that only rolls the car so why couldn't it be modified to generate voltage to charge the batteries....?

Just a quick lesson in electric power for those that may not know...

From Wikipedia


The counter-electromotive force also known as back electromotive force (abbreviated counter EMF, or CEMF)[1] is the voltage, or electromotive force, that pushes against the current which induces it. CEMF is caused by a changing electromagnetic field. It is the effect of Lenz's Law of electromagnetism. Back electromotive force is a voltage that occurs in electric motors where there is relative motion between the armature of the motor and the external magnetic field. One practical application is to use this phenomenon to indirectly measure motor speed and position.[2] Counter EMF is a voltage developed in an inductor network by a pulsating current or an alternating current [1]. The voltage's polarity is at every moment the reverse of the input voltage.[1][3]
 
In a motor using a rotating armature and, in the presence of a magnetic flux, the conductors cut the magnetic field lines as they rotate. The changing field strength produces a voltage in the coil; the motor is acting like a generator. (Faraday's law of induction.) This voltage opposes the original applied voltage; therefore, it is called "counter-electromotive force" (by Lenz's law). With a lower overall voltage across the armature, the current flowing into the motor coils is reduced.[4]
 
To experience the effect of counter-electromotive force one can perform this simple exercise. With a window closed, lift the switch of an electric window in a car that is running at idle, and hold it momentarily and notice the idle RPM drop. The electric motor in the door is stationary and therefore the inrush current will be very high. The alternator will try to provide for the large current which subsequently drags down the engine. As soon as the power window motor overcomes its inertia and starts spinning, back EMF will be produced, exerting less load on the alternator. Hence, the engine speed will return to normal.
 
In motor control and robotics, the term "Back-EMF" often refers to using the voltage generated by a spinning motor to infer the speed of the motor's rotation.

So, in plain language,  When you use electrical power from a generator, it makes the generator harder turn.  You get nothing for free.


.,

[Topcat]

Out West, they're building propane electro powered sub stations. We don't have Coal in massive quantities. 

[Gumby]

For electric motors max torque is at 0 rpm!!!!

As said before battery technology has been lagging for years, with the introduction of lithium cells gives Tesla the ability to setup many many many cells in a storage grid in a parallel and serial method to provide both the voltage and capacity the car needs to run. Remember each of these li-on cells produced by A123 only run a voltage of 3.6 discharge down to 2.5 (past 2.5 not much left), as well I believe they only have a capacity of 2300mah with a 30C rating.  So they must have quite a few, estimating like 55 cells just to hit the voltage level but not capacity (~200V) . Most likely they have somewhere around 400 of these cells in their battery blackbox config to run the Roadster (best guess).

Anyway, without better battery technology I think the electric car will be very limited and I don't see major breakthroughs coming (sadly). Lithium technology came on the scene in the late 90's and has been perfected by raising the C ratings of the batteries (the ability to deliver more amperage without voltage sag). Some say the "C" ratings have been manipulated to sell more batteries as a marketing ploy but I digress.

I think there still are a bunch of coal fired plants and I agree with Chryco about we are robbing peter to pay paul because if you plug your car in and think you are doing the earth a favor you are wrong. Unless we start converting all our power plants to CNG and or Nuclear our carbon problem will continue to plague the human species.

 

Sorry, but I had to laugh out loud when I read "our carbon problem will continue to plague the human species." You of course realize, that humans are CARBON based - don't you? Take that however you want, haha.    

[torredcuda]

Right now electric vehicles are a novelty,and an expensive one at that.Untill they figure out an efficient,non-polluting way to charge them,develop batteries so you can drive a normal distance before recharging,develop an infrastucture of charging stations and bring the cost down to a comparable gas engine vehicle they will not sell to the masses.

[Topcat]

Right now electric vehicles are a novelty,and an expensive one at that.Untill they figure out an efficient,non-polluting way to charge them,develop batteries so you can drive a normal distance before recharging,develop an infrastucture of charging stations and bring the cost down to a comparable gas engine vehicle they will not sell to the masses.

Go to page 18 and 19.

http://www.cargroup.org/assets/files/deployment.pdf

State & federal incentives plus how many charge stations are making the difference.

[Gumby]

OK, seriously. Every different manufacturer has different battery design parameters. Every year, new or different battery design comes out. You can't simply slide out the old ones and slide in the new ones. Batteries are toxic to the landfill. They aren't efficient, and they aren't cheap. 360 mile range is a joke. A bad one. Recharging times and costs are a bigger joke. A bigger, badder one. You pick your poison. Pollution from air particulates, or toxic chemicals seeping into your groundwater supply. There is no easy answer. Hydrogen is a viable solution. CNG is another very good alternative. People are wasting their time on electric, as far as I'm concerned/convinced. Hydrogen is probably the best viable solution. Emission is water vapor. Maybe a solar panel on the roof to help boost the range, or provide auxillary power. Energy can neither be created or destroyed, only converted. Battery/electrical energy is not up to the demands of a vehicle. The silly turbine idea mounted in front of a vehicle to power it is just that. Silly. It is pie in the sky imagination gone amok. Why don't all sailing vessels have wind generators to fill their sails so they can fly across the ocean? Because it conflicts with the laws of nature. It cannot work. Nothing is for free. Why not have a propeller on the front of the vehicle to convert wind power to energy, and a propeller on the rear to propel it? BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY! Do you seriously think that some dumbazz peasent discovered the fountain of youth? SERIOUSLY?  THERE is NO free lunch. Do you seriously think that all the manufacturers in the world cannot come up with a more efficient solution? Variable valve timing, turbos, superchargers, green rolling tires etc. And this peasant comes up with a fan in front of his car? It's like the 200 mpg carbs that were the rage a few years ago. or the magnets meant to align your gas molecules, or the DIY hydrogen injection kits. There is only so many BTUs in a gallon of gas. Friction, heat, wind resistance all takes it's toll. Grow up, people. Face the truth.   

[MEK-Dangerfield]

My apologies for getting off topic...But has anyone priced car batteries recently?   

You can't get a $79 special anymore.   

[Gumby]

Direct injection, Suoer heated engine technology, and a lot of other things have been tried, proven worthy, and discarded. If they worked, people would be ALL over it. It chaps my azz that people still bring this kind of stuff up. Like the backyard mechanic that has an electric run vehicle that gets 999 gazillion miles on a charge from his 110 volt power supply. IT DON"T WORK that way people. Study physics. Study aerodynamics, study electricity, Put them all together. Maybe. MAYBE Tesla had the answer. He knew electricity better than anyone - living or dead. But he isn't around to consult anymore.

[torredcuda]

Go to page 18 and 19.

http://www.cargroup.org/assets/files/deployment.pdf

State & federal incentives plus how many charge stations are making the difference.

Tha Cali coast is somewhat covered but the rest of the country not so much.

[Topcat]

Getting back to the subject of Tesla; it has a clear advantage over the other Hybrids.