Cost & how to convert to EFI?

[Glennster]

There's a guy down the street that is amazing, he tackles projects that are spooky to me. His most recent is when he converted his 1960 Caddy to EFI. He just got a bunch of parts and some manual or instructions and did it like it was nothing. There are a ton of wires that scare the heck out of me.

 This got me thinking, what if I was to toss my Quick Fuel 4 barrel and go to EFI? If I were to do this, there are a few questions that come to mind........
Cost?
Is it hard to install?
Is there a turn key kit out there to do it?
Would I give up horsepower / performance?

[Chryco Psycho]

Well to scare you off the cost will be $4500 minimum .
The conversion will definatly help economy drivability & performance .
 Multi port is far better than Throttle body .
yes there are kits although the one I did I did as your friend did just buying parts & making it work .
 the tough part is fuel pumps & lines , you need a return line isolated from the pick up in the tank  so it doesn't airate the fuel , you need to build a pick up mount for the crank trigger & get magnets drilled into the damper exactly 90* apart  most of the rest is easy , simple bolt ons & plug & play wiring

[Glennster]

WOW!
I had no idea........
Thanks for the info!

[Haddixj]

I would say if your handy you could do it alot cheaper. I am in the planning stages of my conversion. And so far I am looking at 1300$ for megasquirt and a wideband. My fuel pump will be about 250$ use a corvette regulator 40$ use my stock fuel line for my return build another hardline 30$ im not sure on my tank yet but im considering cutting a piece out of the top and adding a late model stlye pickup and using my stock float assembly for the guage.  Depending on how much power you make you could go with a cheap Holley projection. Or find a classic fast system used and buy an aftermarket manifold with rails and injectors
Sorry if there are typos with this fourm and all the things up top it bogs my keyboard down

[Chryco Psycho]

my cost breakdown
Eddy Victor Intake pre-drilled for injectors including rails -  $400
Accufab 1200 CFM throttle body - $800
SDS EFI computer system including programmer & sensors  - $1450
MSD/ Bosch fuel reg - $180
8 - 75 lb / hr injectors , $96 each , $775
2 - Walbro inline fuel pumps $200 each - $400
3 - rolls of 3/8 steel tubing $30 each - $90 1 dedicated fuel line & pump to each rail + 1 return line
Mis fittings & hose for flex lines to the engine $150 & I used JIC steel which is 1/10 of the cost of AN fittings
Machine the damper for magnets for the crank trigger was $100 +
Fabricated my own crank trigger bracket , non adjustable as the computer was adjustable .
 I am not sure where you could cut corners !!
The engine was a 440 non stroker with Victor heads & 660 lift roller cam , idled like it was stock , ran into the 11s on street tires at 4000+ ft of altitude & could be drioven in rush hour traffic . it dynoed with 702 gross hp & 630 ft lb tq

[ntstlgl1970]

I think it totally depends on your skill level, what tools you have available and how comfortable you are working on injection stuff. If you have little to no experience working with injection, get a complete kit from someone that includes the manifold, etc. like edelbrock. Unfortunately for mopars, there aren't a lot of options for a complete kit that includes an intake. The other, somewhat simple option would be something like the MSD or holley projection that can use your old 4bbl intake without machining. If you have access to a lot of tools like a TIG welder, mill etc. and are familiar with fuel injection there are a bunch of other options that can be put together for less cost like what CP did but you are on your own doing it. If I were to exclude the cost of the tools I bought and AN fittings, I would probably be into mine for around 3000 but I traded parts, bartered and swapped labor for friends to do some of the machine work that I cannot do myself. The option that Jason mentioned with the corvette fuel filter/regulator eliminates almost the entire return fuel system which saves a lot of money. Supposedly the corvette regulator is good for about 500hp (I think). The more stock/replacement parts you can use, the cheaper it will be. Going with used or take off parts can save a bunch of money too. I think the biggest restriction is how much power you want to make. Under 500 and you can use a bunch of mustang and camaro stuff for less money. Once you want to go over that amount of power, you won't find as many deals and the cost goes up proportionately.

[Chryco Psycho]

True story , 40 lb / hr injectors are easy to get , double that to 70 + & you buy new , the vette fuel pump filter is a good option but would not feed the 440 we built ,
I am not a fan of T body injection , the fuel can still drop out of the air flow in a wet intake system , injecting behind the valve is far better [dry intake]
 I didn't add the price of the fuel filter into my costs either !!

[Haddixj]

I agree with Eric buying used hard parts is the way to save money. The only way I would buy used electronics is if they are checked out by the manufacture. Weldon fuel pumps have a good reputation with the lsx motors and are relatively cheap 250$ for a quiet solid pump. As cp said staying under 500hp keeps the cost down as well. For a standard motor 440 or so I would go with a ms2 a crank trigger setup (no drilling the balancer) and a single wideband. I would think shopping aroun and getting deals you could be under 2 grand. Go to yellowbullet and look at the classifieds always parts for sale there from people upgrading.

[brads70]

I went to Fastman EFI seminar at Carlisle. He was pretty informative at answering my questions. He had lots of great handouts with info.  I know next to zero about EFI but he said FAST has a distributor that gets the cam signal and crank signal from. I belive he said about 3-400?  With doing all the machine work/ welding myself I was thinking it would cost about $2000-$2500 in parts not including the intake manifold?

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FS&Category_Code=DistChrysler

[fastmanefi]

I went to Fastman EFI seminar at Carlisle. He was pretty informative at answering my questions. He had lots of great handouts with info.  I know next to zero about EFI but he said FAST has a distributor that gets the cam signal and crank signal from. I belive he said about 3-400?  With doing all the machine work/ welding myself I was thinking it would cost about $2000-$2500 in parts not including the intake manifold?

If you are really considering the XFI EFI then send me an email (my email is on my web site, and on the card I handed out at Carlisle) and I'll send you a complete estimate.  My prices are less than what the aftermarket sells FAST stuff for, and my tech support is free.  Also go to my site, technical downloads, and download the "All you wanted to know about EFI" documents.  They're short Word files that cover all the little details such as the fuel system etc.

[1970 RT Challenger 1970]

Is there a cheap Junk Yard option? I think I saw on the Show "Extreme 4X4" on Saturday mornings he did it with a Chevy Truck Engine and EFI from the junkyard. Also someone was making/selling the complete ready to go harness if you didn't have it.

[Chryco Psycho]

you can get some parts from the wreckers , small blocks are easier as the factory parts are more compatable , , some of the wiring , intakes rails & injectors can be used , once yuou are making a lot of power throttle bodys , fuel pumps , injectors , fuel filter are all under spec

[brads70]

If you are really considering the XFI EFI then send me an email (my email is on my web site, and on the card I handed out at Carlisle) and I'll send you a complete estimate.  My prices are less than what the aftermarket sells FAST stuff for, and my tech support is free.  Also go to my site, technical downloads, and download the "All you wanted to know about EFI" documents.  They're short Word files that cover all the little details such as the fuel system etc.

Thanks!    I'm at least a year away from doing this as I've blow my buget on a new Motor, Tranny and rear end. I REALLY enjoyed you spending time with me explaining my questions. I was the guy wanting to convert a STR-14 intake to a somewhat hidden EFI system

[ShelbyDogg]

You have to start reading about the different systems out there. LOTS of stuff on the internet and YOUTUBE.

You could buy the FAST EZ-EFI kit for $1850, Throw in a $110 fuel pump, a roll of 3/8 brake line from NAPA, a couple of fuel filters, modify your sending unit. Your could be in it for less than $2K.

I've picked up 2 used Holley commander Throttle body systems on craigslist for $500. Older system that works very well.

I've found A Holley 4BBL throttle body at a swap  meet for $15, that I'm going to run with the FAST EZ-EFI multipoint conversion kit $870. You could use a GM 454 TBI throttle body and sensors from a junk yard, add a 4 bbl adapter plate, plumb your $110 pump, add a relay and a couple of sensors, then your system is self tuning.

Many ways to do this cheaply but you have to be inventive or have someone help you with the first one. Check out the youtube videos for MSD's ATOMIC EFI and HotRod Magazine's FAST EZ-EFI. Looks easy enough to install. You just have to dive in.

Self tuning systems are the way to go now. Check out this video from Holley:
http://www.holleyinjection.com/instructional-videos/self-tuning-capability

Most new systems are self tuning. If you want to do this TOO cheaply, stay with a carb. Simple and easy to fix on the side of the road. For my long POWER TOUR road trips, I already bought spare parts in case something fails. Spare EZ-EFI computer $190. Spare distributor for my Edelbrock EFI $400, fuel pump, etc.     With a carb, you need a can of gumout and a screwdriver.

[HP2]

Would I give up horsepower / performance?

In general no. On all out race engines at WOT, carb do still hold an advantage. A very slight advantage, but still more peak horsepower. For a street car the performance will be a wash and the driveability increase will be huge.